My “Unintelligent” backup power installation

[Maquis]

I wonder if the compact size of the unlisted ones is the reason why they can't get listed for some reason (e.g. not enough arc clearance).

I think it’s because they’re designed for the European market. (The control circuits for the auto function operate on 220V with one side grounded). I doubt there was any intent by the manufacturer to sell these into North America, but Amazon and its resellers don’t care. Could it pass UL standards? Anybody’s guess.

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[Marcelo Zanetti]

Don't you find it frustrating if your critical loads panel is using well below 7.2kW, but you can't turn on any circuits from the main panel because they're isolated?

Trouble with a critical loads panel is that you can't put circuits bigger than 30A in them. Whereas I've found load management in my 200A main panel works great with the ProPower's 30A output. For example, I can still use all my regular 110V circuits (lights, etc) but ALSO power my home's heat pump AC which, whilst it's on a 60A circuit, usually uses between 2kw and 5kw, or the kitchen's electric oven. I've powered my entire home including AC for a full (hot) day from ProPower via 30A generator inlet straight to the main panel, with interlock kit of course.

That’s what I was thinking. Power the whole house with an interlock at the main panel.

 

[chl]

For those interested, I thought I’d share what I’ve done. The installation shares the conduit run with power to the FCSP, so I can’t give an exact cost of the installation.

A simple cost-effective solution. Kudos.

After a long-lasting power outage after a hurricane remnant came through my area, and several other power outages due to ice storms, tree limbs, etc., I bought a generator, transfer switch, etc., to run essentials - microwave, lights, gas furnace blower, coffee pot, TV, phones, and other outlets. While it won't power everything, it powers enough to stay comfortable.

Running a gas powered generator is noisy and finding enough gasoline to keep it going for more than a few days was a challenge when there was a wide spread outage - many gas stations didn't have power for their pumps. When a derecho went through, it was out for nearly a week.

So, when I buy an EV Truck (Lightning, SIlverado or what ever) my plan is to do the same thing, convert from a gas generator to an EV used as a generator.

I will have to get a new transfer switch - mine is over 20 years old and does not switch the neutrals so a ground fault would be detected by the Lightning or other EV, but the newer transfer switches all seem to have that standard.

And since I currently use a 40 ft generator cable, I may have to relocate the transfer switch or figure out how to get the EV pickup into my backyard where I run my generator from.

There have been many stories here, and elsewhere, about troubles with the Sunrun installations and the Ford "intelligent backup system," not to mention the ludicrous cost, that for now it is a non-starter for me.

 

[Maquis]

I will have to get a new transfer switch - mine is over 20 years old and does not switch the neutrals so a ground fault would be detected by the Lightning or other EV, but the newer transfer switches all seem to have that standard.

Transfer switches that do not switch the neutral are still commonly available. Both types have their appropriate use cases. Just be sure you get the correct type.

 

[Galactus55]

Here is my “Unintelligent” backup power installation

I just went simple if power goes out I plug in the truck. Low cost setup.

Works no problem with the trucks GFI This setup cost me about $1,100.00. I just need to plug truck in and turn it on Pro power. This transfer switch has 10 ciruits that are separate in that I can pick and choose which ciruit I want to run off the truck. 1 240 volt 30amp for the air conditioner(only if needed), 1 120 volt bridgred for kitchen plugs the rest for fridges, sump pump, internet modem WiFi, some computers, and bedroom TV +.
FYI I turn down the Ford Pro charge station to setting #5=48 amps. wired direct to panel with 60amp breaker.
FYI

Reliance Controls 30 Amp 7500W 10-Circuit Indoor Transfer Switch Kit
Model # 310CRK|Store SKU # 1001061741 Canadian Home Depot US unit maybe different.
I took the generator connector plug out of the remote outside box, and installed it in the optional position in the transfer switch panel. Since the Lightning has no gas fumes I kept the system all in the garage. The reason it works with the truck's GFI is the ground from the truck is not connected to the transfer panel. Some people have technical issues with that. But if there is a grounding issue the house GFI will detect it and shut of power.

 

[Hammick]

The 3-pole version just has R S & T inputs and outputs. I don't see a neutral connection. Will the 3-pole switch neutral if connected to "T"?

 

[Pioneer74]

The 3-pole version just has R S & T inputs and outputs. I don't see a neutral connection. Will the 3-pole switch neutral if connected to "T"?

R, S, and T are arbitrary labels. You can put anything on any letter as long as line is on one side and load is on the other, and you make sure the phases match.

 

[GoHawks]

Appreciate the details on the post and was trying to do the same. Can anyone recommend 'hardware' that will work with this setup and switch the neutral? As referenced in this post, I get the 'ground fault error' from the truck. I would like to use the whole panel and not install a sub panel when plugged into the truck. The setup works with the Genmax 6000w inverter generator (which also charges the truck slowly if needed) Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Fastnf]

I know marine transfer switches are three pole. You can't leave the neutral attached to shore power and sail out of the harbor. I have seen rotary switches that are ul listed up to 150 amps. Here is one such site. These are manual switch but automatic ones are also available.

https://www.pacergroup.net/ship-shore-power-transfer-switch/.

I have also seen used 125 amp ones for as little as $125 dollars on ebay.

There are also new 40 amp and 125 amp ul listed transfer switches on ebay

Here are a couple of new examples.
40 amps $70

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185325234765

125 amps $325

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155516558576

 

[Maquis]

Appreciate the details on the post and was trying to do the same. Can anyone recommend 'hardware' that will work with this setup and switch the neutral? As referenced in this post, I get the 'ground fault error' from the truck. I would like to use the whole panel and not install a sub panel when plugged into the truck. The setup works with the Genmax 6000w inverter generator (which also charges the truck slowly if needed) Thanks in advance for any advice.

in order to do what you want in a code-compliant way, you must do one of the following;

1. Find a 200A, 3 pole transfer switch that’s listed as “Suitable for use as service equipment” and install it between the meter and the panel.

2. Install a new service disconnect after the meter. Then, install a 3 pole transfer switch between the disconnect and the panel. This removes the requirement to use a service-rated transfer switch.

If your meter is a combo meter/main with built in disconnect, you’re already halfway with #2.

Either way, your main panel becomes a subpanel, and the neutrals must all be isolated from ground. It also means you have to pull the meter to do the installation. Most utilities will require this work to be permitted, inspected and performed by a licensed electrician.

Installing a new subpanel for backed up loads will likely cost considerably less money.

 

[BhamDCam]

The bonding of the ground and neutral legs in the main house panel is interpreted by ProPower as a ground fault. That is why the neutral has to be switched from the main panel to the sub panel the truck is feeding.

So I understand this. This makes sense. But one thing I recently noticed with my setup is that my electrician did not include a ground wire from the generator (truck) inlet to the transfer switch. Is it because the neutral and ground are bonded at/on the truck and so there is no need to run a fourth wire to the transfer switch? Or did my electrician mess up?

 

[Runaway Tractor]

I have a generator inlet box on the side of my house, and a UL Listed main breaker interlock as shown a few posts up. Normally used with my portable generator to power up the whole house. Safe and effective alternative to main ATS or sub-panel with ATS. Same thing got me with the truck seeing the house's bonded neutral as a fault.

I made up a new generator cable with the ground disconnected on the house-end (female end) for this reason. That way the truck doesn't see the "ground fault" that is the the house's ground/neutral bond at the panel. And the cable itself is still 99% safe since it still has the ground wire in it, so if someone (me) runs it over with a lawnmower, it will still trip the truck's ground fault detection. There is probably some code requirement that would want to see this done differently with a thousand dollars worth of extra parts, but this is safe and functional.

I'm going to be putting a new generator inlet box in the garage so I can plug it in there rather than driving it around to the side of the yard.

 

[hturnerfamily]

I think the 'need' for the 'full' 9.6kw of total truck 'output' is not necessarily a big concern, as the only difference in the HIS being able to use the total power output of both inverters, and these 'other' ways of doing it, is simply a difference of 20amps @ 120volts.

The rear outlet, or even the combination of the rear 120v outlets with a 'Y' 240v adapter, gives you 7.2kw of 240v power output, PLENTY to handle most all needs within a home, even if needing a HVAC system powered. Most any HVAC system is on a 30amp 240v breaker set, and since the main amperage spike is only at the compressor's startup 'moment', it's still a manageable appliance, even if other loads are needed at the same time. Most any HVAC unit is only going to spike nearer 20amps, then fall back to a 'regular run' of 15-18amps, whether heat-pump or air conditioning.

If you are going to power the electric oven or stove, or use an electric clothes dryer, etc, you will need to manage those 'loads', as needed... regardless whether you have the full 9.6kw of power, or 'only' 7.2kw. An electric water heater, too, comes into play, although it is not on 'constantly', even then.

 

[Runaway Tractor]

I think the 'need' for the 'full' 9.6kw of total truck 'output' is not necessarily a big concern, as the only difference in the HIS being able to use the total power output of both inverters, and these 'other' ways of doing it, is simply a difference of 20amps @ 120volts.

The home integration module doesn't use the truck's AC inverters at all. The HIM pulls the 400v DC out of the battery through the CCS connection on the FCSP. One of the components inside the HIM is 400v DC to 240v AC inverter. I forget the max kwh it can provide (10 I think?).

Of course, this requires you to be one of the lucky people that actually manages to make the HIM and all it's other components work properly and reliably at great financial cost. I can tell you my portable generator hookup (with the generator or pro power) and interlocked breaker works reliably 100% of the time

 

[TaxmanHog]

The home integration module doesn't use the truck's AC inverters at all. The HIM pulls the 400v DC out of the battery through the CCS connection on the FCSP. One of the components inside the HIM is 400v DC to 240v AC inverter. I forget the max kwh it can provide (10 I think?).

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