More emphasis on 120V charging

[Mmiketa]

I could never survive on LV1 only and emphasizing it would only deter people from owning EVs. People already laugh in their "bro" groups about how long it takes to charge EVs.

The industry needs to emphasize 28-40 amp charging instead of the 80-amp that the f150 is capable of as it has a much higher chance of success with people's existing infrastructure.

If you truly can survive on Lv1 charging, I'd almost wager you don’t need a vehicle at all and spending 50-70k+ on a vehicle makes little sense (honestly it doesn’t makes sense even if you drive more, but we’re all here anyways).

I work as an electrical engineer and more and more of the buildings we design are adding EV charging. Our standard has been 40A 208/240V chargers.

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[shutterbug]

That's very interesting 'cause family, neighbors, and friends have all started the question "So, what sort of special charging setup to you have?" They will usually follow up with "How long does it take to charge?" question afterwards which is when I tell them something along the lines of "From empty? Forever. To refill from the day's commute? Just overnight. We come out to a fully charged EV every morning."

I don't take many long trips, but when I do, I want to be able to charge to 100% and not some measly 20 miles. The "forever" time frame just doesn't work for me.

 

[Zprime29]

I paid $1000 for Qmerit to install my FCSP, which came with the truck. 30% tax credit means I'll be out of pocket $700. Worth every penny. I agree that L1 shouldn't be scoffed at, I topped up from 30% to 100% on L1 at the in-laws which made the return trip home quicker. That was with multiple around town trips/errands. It still doesn't mean we should limit ourselves when the cost is minimal. If I had to purchase a $400 EVSE as well, that's still less than what I'd save in gas for one year so it's still not a big expense.

 

[USA EV]

Does this theoretical worker bee only ever use a car to drive to work? Does he not visit family, shop for groceries, take kids to games, help a friend?

I don't take many long trips, but when I do, I want to be able to charge to 100% and not some measly 20 miles. The "forever" time frame just doesn't work for me.

What most people don't realize is that if you're charging more than you're driving on average then your charge level trends towards "full". You can drive more than average on some days (like your cases above or weekend trips) and it may take a few days to recover, but it will still trend towards full. Mostly your battery is full and ready to go.

It's still nice to have a DCFC nearby for unplanned trips. If you don't, then that should be factored in.

Both my wife and I work from home, but this would not be viable in our place at all.

That's our situation and 120V worked fine for us. Charging 2-3 MPH adds up when the car can be charging all day, but even charging 10 hours overnight is still 20-30 miles. How much do you all drive on average?

 

[carys98]

While some people can live with only 120V charging that is kind of an edge case. I’ve found that a lot of people think that you can only charge where there is some specialized equipment. You get people who will try to point out that there are a lot more gas stations than chargers and I respond true, but there are a lot more 120V outlets than there are gas stations.

Kinda off topic. But i'm curious what peoples thoughts are on using Electricity at an airbnb or any temporary rental for EV charging.

I recently went stayed at an airbnb for 3 nights and could have ran a L2 portable charger through the window into their dryer's outlet. But I figured its best not to dump 100+kwh of use onto their bill without getting formal permission.

Would have been super handy though as DCFC were very few and far between at this location. Next time i'm going to ask the host in advanced for permission i think.

I rented a house at the beach for Thanksgiving and kept it plugged into 120V all week. There are no DC chargers there so that was the only way I could make it home.

 

[benderofbows]

I have both the mobile 120V and a Emporia 40A; is it better for the battery to use 120 than 240?

 

[Maquis]

I have both the mobile 120V and a Emporia 40A; is it better for the battery to use 120 than 240?

Yes, marginally better. But in 100,000 miles, you won’t be able to tell the difference, and you’ll spend a lot more money charging on 120V.

 

[shutterbug]

What most people don't realize is that if you're charging more than you're driving on average then your charge level trends towards "full". You can drive more than average on some days (like your cases above or weekend trips) and it may take a few days to recover, but it will still trend towards full. Mostly your battery is full and ready to go.

It's still nice to have a DCFC nearby for unplanned trips. If you don't, then that should be factored in.

My commute is 20 miles a day. Adding miscellaneous other trips, there isn't much room to trend toward full. Adding 40 kWh at home will cost me $1.25. Charging at DCFC location near me will cost $20.00. So every longish trip I take, I will start almost $20 in the hole.

 

[benderofbows]

Yes, marginally better. But in 100,000 miles, you won’t be able to tell the difference, and you’ll spend a lot more money charging on 120V.

Why would it cost a lot more? My Emporia 40A pulls 9kW and charges around 22 miles per hour, while my 120V mobile pulls 1.3kW and charges around 3 miles per hour. So yes the mobile charger will run longer, but pull correspondingly lower power.

 

[Maquis]

Why would it cost a lot more? My Emporia 40A pulls 9kW and charges around 22 miles per hour, while my 120V mobile pulls 1.3kW and charges around 3 miles per hour. So yes the mobile charger will run longer, but pull correspondingly lower power.

Forget “miles per hour.” That’s meaningless.

See post #12.

 

[carys98]

Why would it cost a lot more? My Emporia 40A pulls 9kW and charges around 22 miles per hour, while my 120V mobile pulls 1.3kW and charges around 3 miles per hour. So yes the mobile charger will run longer, but pull correspondingly lower power.

There is a fixed amount of ”overhead” that consumes power anytime you are charging, no matter the rate. This energy is lost as heat and does not add to your charge. If you add 10% to the battery in 1 hour you will waste one-tenth as much as it would in 10 hours.

 

[USA EV]

Our standard has been 40A 208/240V chargers.

How do you figure how many multiples of this?

 

[WhipSticks]

What most people don't realize is that if you're charging more than you're driving on average then your charge level trends towards "full". You can drive more than average on some days (like your cases above or weekend trips) and it may take a few days to recover, but it will still trend towards full. Mostly your battery is full and ready to go.

It's still nice to have a DCFC nearby for unplanned trips. If you don't, then that should be factored in.



That's our situation and 120V worked fine for us. Charging 2-3 MPH adds up when the car can be charging all day, but even charging 10 hours overnight is still 20-30 miles. How much do you all drive on average?

We are in a village about an hour from the nearest real city (which is still fairly small). I brought the truck home 1 month ago and we now have 1862 miles on it. So about 60 miles a day. Today (so far) I had to drive to the state capital for a group event in the capital (40 miles each way), drop the kid at school (1.4 miles each way), drop some equipment at the local YMCA (1 mile) and run to the transfer station (about 6 miles each way). I will have to pick the kid up after an afternoon ski trip (2 miles total) and run to the store for some groceries (2 miles total). I have done all of that on about 30% of the battery. We occasionally do round trips of about 250 miles each way. Once or twice a year we may do a 900 mile trip down the coast or to Canada. I also use the truck as a build platform; run power to tools 8 hours a day for several consecutive days, say, once every month or so during the summer months.

Also, I just love driving this truck!

 

[ryun]

I don't take many long trips, but when I do, I want to be able to charge to 100% and not some measly 20 miles. The "forever" time frame just doesn't work for me.

I think that's where the difference here lies. I'm seldomly under 40% SoC when returning from a long trip (usually take advantage of a DCFC at a stop), and I've never been anywhere close to empty upon return. So that forever scenario never plays out for our household. Also when we charge to 100% for a road trip I'm almost always starting from 80%.

I'd be on 240V if the gap was much wider though.

 

[shutterbug]

Also when we charge to 100% for a road trip I'm almost always starting from 80%.

So, how long does it take to go from 80% to 100%? 15 hours? Me, it takes about an hour. That's an awful lot of advanced planning.

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