Charging Lightning ER on 50A Circuit with L2 Charger

[RickLightning]

When I went to test drive my Lariat yesterday before taking possession, dealer told me that the Ford rep told them this week to recommend charging to between only 40 and 60% SOC, unless cold weather season or on a trip. I was under the impression that 20-80% was fine. Anyone hear this?

I would discount that. To much invalid information out there to trust any of it. It says very clearly in the manual to charge to less than 100%, or 90% (depending on manual version). Until Ford officially says anything different, ignore other advice from non-experts.

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[mme_and_lightning]

I think there will be a day when the Lightning is a 'classic' and these early models will be prized. Just like the older models of yesterday, the Lightning will be worthly of a new battery with the prices going down.

 

[BuzzLightning2023]

If I have a 50 amp circuit breaker. Could I simply replace it with a 60 amp to get the usable 48amp charge rate from my charger?

I had my electrical contractor install a 60A breaker so I could hard wire my Emporia home charger (unit per @TaxmanHog recommendation) vs 50A for nema 14-50 plug-in. Charges at a faster rate when hard wired. My sparky says it’s the same size wire for either breaker.

 

[BuzzLightning2023]

I had my electrical contractor install a 60A breaker so I could hard wire my Emporia home charger (unit per @TaxmanHog recommendation) vs 50A for nema 14-50 plug-in. Charges at a faster rate when hard wired. My sparky says it’s the same size wire for either breaker.

Sorry. I should add I don’t have my truck yet, but decided to go hard wired for the promise of faster charging. If the home charger acts up, a quick call to my sparky to pop in a nema 14-50 outlet so I can use my mobile charger.

 

[cdherman]

I had my electrical contractor install a 60A breaker so I could hard wire my Emporia home charger (unit per @TaxmanHog recommendation) vs 50A for nema 14-50 plug-in. Charges at a faster rate when hard wired. My sparky says it’s the same size wire for either breaker.

That a little bit debated. Some say 6 AWG is sufficient for 60A (48A cont) and some say 4. Depends a little on distance I suppose. The online calculators tend to say 4 AWG. I ran 4 AWG, then installed a nice large box where I tapped it down to 6 AWG for my Emporia 48A. At the time, a SR truck was ordered. Then Ford changed the prices and we upgraded to an ER.

Now I wish I had future proofed even more. I *could* have ran 3 AWG copper and got to 100A circuit. I carefully measured the run and ordered a custom length of wire anyhow. Few $$ more and I would have been ready for the 80A Ford Charge Station Pro.

With the 4 AWG, I can get by with an 80A breaker, 60A continuous. A 60A EVSE would be nice, but they seem to be rare. Used Tesla 80A units are affordable (60A cont), but then would need an adaptor as well. Probably will just derate the Ford supplied unit to 60A.

One other poster on this thread went so far as to tear out his Ford unit and install a lower rated tesla, due to issues charging his tesla. Why oh why did he not get a used 80A tesla that could have accommodated his wiring?

Finally, as for heavy wiring not being compatible with lower rated breakers and appliances. Electricians have been trimming a few strands off heavy wire forever, and I think its even allowed officially. Don't tear out a long run of good wire since its too heavy. Jeeze.....

 

[BuzzLightning2023]

That a little bit debated. Some say 6 AWG is sufficient for 60A (48A cont) and some say 4. Depends a little on distance I suppose. The online calculators tend to say 4 AWG. I ran 4 AWG, then installed a nice large box where I tapped it down to 6 AWG for my Emporia 48A. At the time, a SR truck was ordered. Then Ford changed the prices and we upgraded to an ER.

Now I wish I had future proofed even more. I *could* have ran 3 AWG copper and got to 100A circuit. I carefully measured the run and ordered a custom length of wire anyhow. Few $$ more and I would have been ready for the 80A Ford Charge Station Pro.

With the 4 AWG, I can get by with an 80A breaker, 60A continuous. A 60A EVSE would be nice, but they seem to be rare. Used Tesla 80A units are affordable (60A cont), but then would need an adaptor as well. Probably will just derate the Ford supplied unit to 60A.

One other poster on this thread went so far as to tear out his Ford unit and install a lower rated tesla, due to issues charging his tesla. Why oh why did he not get a used 80A tesla that could have accommodated his wiring?

Finally, as for heavy wiring not being compatible with lower rated breakers and appliances. Electricians have been trimming a few strands off heavy wire forever, and I think its even allowed officially. Don't tear out a long run of good wire since its too heavy. Jeeze.....

Solid. My sparky ran 6-2 romex with a #10 ground.

 

[Jim Lewis]

On charging rate, I guess it depends on what part of the curve you're going up. I have an FCSP installed on a dedicated 100-amp line, and the FCSP is set in the hardware switch to deliver 80 amps. However, in the FordPass app, I've set the charging rate to 48 amps. I typically keep the vehicle charged to 50%, and in day-to-day driving hardly ever dip below 40% SOC. A couple of weeks ago, I charged from 49% to 80% in 3 hours and 27 minutes. That's a 31% charge in 207 minutes or 0.15% charge per minute, so in 60 min, I add 9.0%. So, 0.090 x 131 kWh capacity = ~12 kWh per hour. This calculation inherently includes the 10% charging loss. It's that 80% to 90% part of the trip up the charging curve that I avoided that kills the kWh added per hour overall figure.

BTW, Ford probably just put the "recommended" 90% charge figure in the manual to avoid owner range anxiety and having unhappy owners stranded out in the boondocks far from a charging station. In anything a large monolithic company like Ford does, the marketing department probably has a significant influence on what's revealed to the customer and why. Ford basically wants you to be happy with your vehicle, recommend it to others, and buy more yourself down the line. And they don't want to have to pay any warranty claims for batteries that don't have at least 70% capacity after 8 years or 100,000 miles. I would interpret anything they tell you about charging the battery in that light, not that it's the best charging scheme to have far higher battery health than only a crappy 70% of full capacity left after 8 years or 100,000 miles.

Strange, too, that folks don't think the FCSP or the HIS Intelligent Backup system is the best technology in the world but yet swear that Ford, in its owner's manual, is recommending the best charging scheme to maintain the highest lifetime battery capacity... There ought to be a thread on this forum for those who reach 8 years or 100,000 miles with their Lightning to report where they're at in battery capacity (and how they got there).

 

[Maquis]

Solid. My sparky ran 6-2 romex with a #10 ground.

That’s only good for 55A.
#6 THHN in conduit would be OK.

 

[BuzzLightning2023]

That’s only good for 55A.
#6 THHN in conduit would be OK.

Gotcha, but this charger only pulls 48A so I should be ok (?)

 

[Maquis]

Gotcha, but this charger only pulls 48A so I should be ok (?)

The NEC defines an EVSE as a continuous load which means the circuit ampacity must be at least 125% of the load.

 

[BuzzLightning2023]

The NEC defines an EVSE as a continuous load which means the circuit ampacity must be at least 125% of the load.

OK. 48 x 1.25 = 60, So I should be good, yes?

 

[Maquis]

OK. 48 x 1.25 = 60, So I should be good, yes?

No your conductors are only good for 55A. 55<60.

 

[BuzzLightning2023]

No your conductors are only good for 55A. 55<60.

I appreciate your expertise. I’m a carpenter/general contractor so I definitely have some gaps in my knowledge. I’ve met the manufacturer’s requirements for wire and breaker size, so I should be good.

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

Probably not. Both the EVSE and the branch circuit wiring would need to be capable of 48/60A, respectively. The connection would also need to be hard-wired if it isn’t already.

I have an Emporia uni

I had my electrical contractor install a 60A breaker so I could hard wire my Emporia home charger (unit per @TaxmanHog recommendation) vs 50A for nema 14-50 plug-in. Charges at a faster rate when hard wired. My sparky says it’s the same size wire for either breaker.

I have the same charger, and hard wired. I don't know what size wiring my installer used though.

 

[Pioneer74]

I appreciate your expertise. I’m a carpenter/general contractor so I definitely have some gaps in my knowledge. I’ve met the manufacturer’s requirements for wire and breaker size, so I should be good.

Your EVSE should be set for 40 amps to meet the continuous load requirement, not 48.

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