Jumping 12 volt battery

[Fryballin]

Just curious if there’s any reason not to use a jump box like this NOCO GBX75 1750 amp lithium jump box on the lightning 12 volt battery in a case where the 12 volt battery was dead and needed jumped? The lightning owner manual says the motorcraft BHAGM-H3 is the replacement 12 volt. This is an AGM battery (not lead acid) and so I’m just curious if there’s any reason to not use a jump box period on the lightning 12 volt battery or if an alternative jump box since the NOCO says to only use with lead acid batteries?

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[carys98]

AGM batteries are lead acid batteries. There are three types of lead acid: flooded, gel, and AGM. They do have some differences in charge curves but you can use that jump box with any of them.

 

[srspring551]

OK, I'm certainly not an expert on anything, but how would that work? You would want to "charge" the battery, not "jump" it, right? The NOCO web site says: "No. While Boost can jump start your car battery it is not a battery charger. If you need to charge your car battery we recommend using NOCO Genius for charging and maintaining 6V or 12V batteries lead acid, AGM or Lithium batteries.
Click here to learn more about NOCO Genius Smart Battery Chargers." Wondering how...

 

[Fryballin]

OK, I'm certainly not an expert on anything, but how would that work? You would want to "charge" the battery, not "jump" it, right? The NOCO web site says: "No. While Boost can jump start your car battery it is not a battery charger. If you need to charge your car battery we recommend using NOCO Genius for charging and maintaining 6V or 12V batteries lead acid, AGM or Lithium batteries.
Click here to learn more about NOCO Genius Smart Battery Chargers." Wondering how...

I think the goal of using a jump box on an EV with a dead 12 volt battery would be to get the vehicle “on” so it could be driven. Once the lightning is “on” which requires a 12 volt battery to initiate, the high voltage battery will then take over and supply any power needed through the DC to DC converter (which takes high voltage and reduces it down to low voltage like 12 volt to supply accessories). It would not eliminate the need to replace a bad 12 volt battery but prevent you from being stranded until you could get it replaced.

 

[RickLightning]

The vehicle will not run without a working 12v battery. If the 12v battery is not at sufficient charge, then you cannot start the vehicle. The goal is to get the charge on the battery up enough to start the vehicle, which then will charge the 12v, unless it' defective, in which case it won't turn on or it will die shortly when the 12v won't hold the charge or take a new one.

And yes, it's not "jumping", it's more "charging".

 

[Fryballin]

The vehicle will not run without a working 12v battery. If the 12v battery is not at sufficient charge, then you cannot start the vehicle. The goal is to get the charge on the battery up enough to start the vehicle, which then will charge the 12v, unless it' defective, in which case it won't turn on or it will die shortly when the 12v won't hold the charge or take a new one.

And yes, it's not "jumping", it's more "charging".

Why does FORD have a “Jump Starting the Vehicle” section in the manual if you are not jumping the battery but charging it?

 

[TaxmanHog]

 

[grantmethepower]

It works. I have one and used it to jump the lightning. I had a dead 12v (separate issue-the replacement seems like it’s now dying) and rather than deal with a tow I got one of the battery jumpers from Amazon and it worked perfectly.

 

[hturnerfamily]

'jump starting' is simply charging a battery enough, or using the other vehicle's battery, to turn over an engine/starter, to start an engine-based vehicle.... 'charging', though, is simply charging a 12v battery.... in an EV, the 12v battery is not 'starting' anything, it is simply needed to turn ON the truck, and therefore, usability of it's main battery...

I 'jump started' a neighbor's vehicle a while back. We tried to simply put a 12v charger on the vehicle's battery for a while, but that did not give enough 'juice' to turn over the engine/starter. We got out the jumper cables and attached them to her 12v battery, and then to my Lightning's 'jumper points' along the passenger side edge of the frunk area. Her car immediately jumped to life : )

I believe the Lightning's 12v battery is not in any way 'tied into' the vehicle's main battery... at least not directly, so charging it, or jumping it, or jumping from it, is no issue. There are automated safety measures to assure those two batteries don't mix, at least not directly.

 

[astricklin]

Why does FORD have a “Jump Starting the Vehicle” section in the manual if you are not jumping the battery but charging it?

Because whoever they hired to rewrite the manual for the lightning reused as much as possible from the ice version. "Jump start" is a familiar term used for when the 12v battery is discharged in a vehicle and you want to apply enough voltage/amperage to get the vehicle to start. "Charging" typically implies a longer timeframe process that brings the battery up to it's full voltage level.

 

[Fryballin]

Because whoever they hired to rewrite the manual for the lightning reused as much as possible from the ice version. "Jump start" is a familiar term used for when the 12v battery is discharged in a vehicle and you want to apply enough voltage/amperage to get the vehicle to start. "Charging" typically implies a longer timeframe process that brings the battery up to it's full voltage level.

I think we all agree that using another vehicle via jumper cables or using a jump box is not “starting” the lightning but rather providing the necessary wattage required to initiate the boot up sequence of the software as well as close the high voltage contactors to allow it to begin supplying power to the necessary components.

the question I’m not sure about is, with a totally dead 12 volt battery (one that will not accept charge from the high voltage battery, or one that hasn’t had sufficient time to regain charge) will the truck be drive able once the jumper cables, or jump box is removed?

according to Grantmethepower’s experience, his 12 volt battery was dead, couldn’t drive his truck, rather than getting towed, he used a jump box and drove his truck. So seems like once the truck is “on” and “ready to drive” the 12 volt battery can still be really low but the truck can still be driven.

 

[Maquis]

I think we all agree that using another vehicle via jumper cables or using a jump box is not “starting” the lightning but rather providing the necessary wattage required to initiate the boot up sequence of the software as well as close the high voltage contactors to allow it to begin supplying power to the necessary components.

the question I’m not sure about is, with a totally dead 12 volt battery (one that will not accept charge from the high voltage battery, or one that hasn’t had sufficient time to regain charge) will the truck be drive able once the jumper cables, or jump box is removed?

according to Grantmethepower’s experience, his 12 volt battery was dead, couldn’t drive his truck, rather than getting towed, he used a jump box and drove his truck. So seems like once the truck is “on” and “ready to drive” the 12 volt battery can still be really low but the truck can still be driven.

Englis is a funny language. Some how we have decided that “Starting something” and “Initiating something” are not the same thing.

 

[hturnerfamily]

when I bought our second used 2014 Nissan LEAF, the owner was about to tell me that the deal might be off because he suddenly realized that he could not get the car to even come on, much less drive anywhere...

I already 'knew' enough about the 12v vs Drive battery of electric vehicles, and correctly identified that it was simply that the 12v battery was dead.

I pulled my 2014 Ford Focus up to it, attached the jumper cables to the Leaf's battery, and then to the Focus's battery, and 'voila, the Leaf could now be turned 'ON'.
Now, for the second part...

I detached the jumper cables, and got into the Leaf to take it for it's test drive... nope, no go.
The Leaf would not go into 'gear'... after a few minutes of 'wondering' what could be amiss, I realized that it was just that the 12v battery still did not have 'enough' juice to get everything in place to get the care going... so, back to 'jumping' the Leaf from the Focus, although this time it was more about 'charging' the Leaf's battery, versus just getting it to turn 'ON'... all is well that ends well, and it did.

That Leaf was a terrific car, and it was sold several years later at a HIGHER price than I'd paid for it.

 

[Fryballin]

Englis is a funny language. Some how we have decided that “Starting something” and “Initiating something” are not the same thing.

I was just trying to say that obviously there’s no engine component that requires cranking and turning over to get started, so the only thing to provide power to is whatever the truck needs to go into its “ready to drive mode”. Yes I agree its the same thing, I’m just really interested in knowing if the 12 volt battery can’t be jumped but has to be “charged” in order to drive the truck. The NOCO boost X I have won’t charge the battery, so is it going to help me in a situation with a dead 12 volt battery? Again, Grantmethepower, said he has one and it worked when he had a dead 12 volt battery, and people on other forums are saying these have been used for a long time on EV’s. So I’m assuming what I have is good for that type of situation.

 

[Amps]

I'd leave the jump-pack connected to the battery if the LVB was too flat to do anything. A cheap lightweight one that's charged would probably be plenty. You don't need the high-amperage short "jump" boost from the pack to provide big amps to a starter motor.

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