Charging with 14-50 outlet in California - Issues

[dcp9142]

California updated the electrical code recently to require that all newly installed garage outlet circuits be protected by a GFCI circuit breaker in the panel. Unfortunately that means if you install a new NEMA 14-50 outlet in California it WONT WORK reliably with ANY EVSE you plug in. Not with the unit supplied with the Mach-E or the Lightning, not with the Tesla mobile connector, not with third party ones either. Essentially they have made it impossible to have a new outlet that you can plug-in an EVSE.

So the choice is:
1 Convince the inspector to sign off on a regular breaker
2 swap the GFCI breaker out for a normal breaker after the inspector goes away
3 Give up and use a hardwired EVSE.

Unfortunately my electrician only told me this after I had paid big bucks for a new 14-50 outlet.

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[Amps]

So, you’ve personally experienced this, correct?

 

[dcp9142]

Correct! I’ve reset the GFCI breaker countless times using several different EVSE

 

[dcp9142]

So, you’ve personally experienced this, correct?

Sure have. Spent lots of money too!

 

[Amps]

This is going to be huge news in the other 49 states because the latest versions of the NEC require them.

OTOH, you may want to have somebody double check your electrician’s work. Pay particular attention to the neutral and how the ground is handled all the way back to the service panel.

 

[dcp9142]

This is going to be huge news in the other 49 states because the latest versions of the NEC require them.

OTOH, you may want to have somebody double check your electrician’s work. Pay particular attention to the neutral and how the ground is handled all the way back to the service panel.

Have done. He has done it right.

You are correct. We either need a way to disable the CCI in the EVSE or some flex in the code.

 

[dcp9142]

This is a huge issue for heat pumps and other air conditioning too.
https://hvac-blog.acca.org/more-sta...e-to-gfci-requirement-in-2020-nec-will-yours/

 

[TaxmanHog]

This is going to be huge news in the other 49 states because the latest versions of the NEC require them.

I moved the thread from Regional CA to Charging node

Let the opinions fly, and be safe out there!

 

[dcp9142]

The rather hidden info for the Ford Mobile Charger also specifies that it is only for a 14-50 outlet WITHOUT GFI.

Tesla owners have the issue but much less frequently. See: https://www.teslaownersonline.com/t...tor-nema-14-50-gfci-breaker-reliability.7713/

Perhaps the Ford Mobile Charger can be changed so this isn’t an issue. Or should we do a survey like the Tesla owners did?

 

[RickLightning]

The rather hidden info for the Ford Mobile Charger also specifies that it is only for a 14-50 outlet WITHOUT GFI.

Tesla owners have the issue but much less frequently. See: https://www.teslaownersonline.com/t...tor-nema-14-50-gfci-breaker-reliability.7713/

Perhaps the Ford Mobile Charger can be changed so this isn’t an issue. Or should we do a survey like the Tesla owners did?

Hidden? What are you reading? Actually says to use a GFCI circuit breaker...

 

[Henry Ford]

@RickLightning is right, a GFCI breaker is recommended. That leads me to believe something is wired incorrectly.

I think Occam's razor applies here. Try to solve the problem with the fewest elements. Going from tripped breaker to NEMA 14-50 won't work in California is a leap with a lot of assumptions.

The problem isn't the building code, the problem is a tripped breaker. Why did the breaker trip? A properly functioning GFCI will trip when an unintended path to ground is detected. Where is the unintended path to ground on a newly installed outlet? The wiring is one possibility. Humans make mistakes and yours would not be the first outlet where the ground and neutral were swapped. The charger is another possibility. Does it trip other, known-functional outlets. Testing this could be a bit tricky since 14-50 outlets aren't common in residential applications. Another way to test the wiring would be to use another charger but again, most people don't have an extra EV charger laying around.

Anyway, my point is the troubleshooting process should be narrowly focused to the problem (tripping breaker), assumptions should be kept to a minimum, and elements of the system should be tested individually to the extent possible.

 

[hturnerfamily]

unfortunately, this type of thing reinforces the fact that while we all want to potentially migrate to Electric Vehicles, and do our regular charging at our own homes, without being a DIY and being comfortable with electricity and how it works, you get into situations that certainly don't seem to make owning an EV very easy.
I find it ridiculous that there would be a requirement for a 50amp outlet with 4 wires, like your dryer, or oven, or stove, to have to be GFCI. This is just problematic for the devices that use this circuit.

It certainly can be for the owners, too.

 

[Maquis]

In the 2020 NEC, there is a requirement that all receptacle outlets in a garage or outdoors rated 50A or less be GFCI-protected.
EVSE manufacturers need to stop making crap. In the 2023, it’s all outlets, not just receptacles (meaning hard-wired is also included in the requirement).

That said, I have used the Ford Mobile Charger on a GFCI-protected circuit several times and never experienced tripping.

Either your EVSE is defective, or the ground and neutral wires on the circuit are reversed.

 

[greenne]

Another reason to hardwire it.

I honestly don't understand the hesitation to have a professional hardwire a highly rated EVSE and be done with it.

It's the safest option and I'd rather spend a few bucks to have it done correctly and safely than go cheap with more risk. It's money well spent in my opinion.

Mentality: spend $60, 70, 80, or 90k on an electric truck...won't spend an extra $1000-2000 for the best installation.

 

[metroshot]

Another reason to hardwire it.

I honestly don't understand the hesitation to have a professional hardwire a highly rated EVSE and be done with it.

It's the safest option and I'd rather spend a few bucks to have it done correctly and safely than go cheap with more risk. It's money well spent in my opinion.

Mentality: spend $60, 70, 80, or 90k on an electric truck...won't spend an extra $1000-2000 for the best installation.

Exactly!

My electrician said it's cheaper to hardwire than to install an outlet and then limit the maximum current to 40A.

Mine is hardwired and delivers 48A (11kW) and it's been perfect since day one.

No outlets to wear out, no heating up contacts, no melting plugs, etc...

Electrician installing dual 60A breakers hardwired to my Emporia 48A EVSE:

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