Lariat ER slow charging is wearing me out

[Hammick]

The superchargers are going to be near worthless on the EV9s, because of the way the packs are setup; we won’t get anymore than 80kW until the V4 SCs roll out.

I replied to you on the Kia forums as well, in a worse case scenario - heat usage, headwinds, elevation, and a 80mph average - no, I don’t think it can reliably.

And just to clarify, I’m using true 80mph average according to OBD reading. We need to get on the same page on that as it can change the data drastically
Meaning if I have stretches of 60mph, I would need to go 100mph to average 80mph.

If we’re not using true 80mph average and we’re talking normal driving on local roads and on the highway set the cruise to 80mph, I find the OBD reports those as averages closer to 65-70mph.

This trip for example, I went 176 miles on 75% SOC, varying elevation, moderate headwinds and ended around 3-5%.

A quick glance would make you feel like that’s a 75mph average. I even touched 90mph at multiple points. The trip planner shows this as only a 63mph average.

So based on that, do I think you can do a true 70mph average, in the cold, with headwinds, with elevation, and go 200 mi on 80%? Not likely…I think it would be too close for comfort for most folks.

Hope this helps.

Thanks. Even if we have to drive at 70 mph for the 200 mile stretches it sound like the EV9 would shave of a ton of charging time vs our Lightning ER.

Wife and I are going to test drive one in August. We have 14 months left on our I5 lease and it was a "single pay" lease so I don't see any way of getting out of it early.

Assuming I have our adapter by November (was supposed to be July now August) I think we will head North to Miles City at Spearfish and avoid Sheridan.

Try wrapping the charging handle in a wet towel in the heat.

I will try that on the way home. We always travel with a 12v car fridge so I'll keep a wet towel in a zip lock int eh fridge.

My first charge stop was in Council Bluffs, IA and the first charger I was on caused a charge fault. The handle was uncomfortably hot. I switched to the other cord and it faulted out but wasn't as hot. Moved to a different charger and had one charge fault. Started over and I was able to finish. This was at 8:30 am so I doubt the outside temps were the issue.

Sioux City and Sioux Falls both have brand new EA chargers and I experienced show charging at those as well. So I figure there could be three possible explanations.

- EA had derated these chargers
- Ford did something to the charging speeds in one of the OTA updates
- My truck has a problem

 

[Hammick]

The pack voltage increases as state of charge increases, and therefore so does the charging rate. So when limited by charging current, the optimal strategy is to charge often, keeping the state of charge as close to 80% as possible. After 80% of course the truck limits charge rate to ~55 kW. If charging at the aforementioned "50 kW" chargers, then keep charging up to the second charging rate dropoff at 89% SOC. The actual charge rate approaches the true 50 kW the higher the state of charge gets, up to that point.

Makes sense but I can tell you on this trip I never noticed the charge speed increasing.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Thanks. Even if we have to drive at 70 mph for the 200 mile stretches it sound like the EV9 would shave of a ton of charging time vs our Lightning ER.

Wife and I are going to test drive one in August. We have 14 months left on our I5 lease and it was a "single pay" lease so I don't see any way of getting out of it early.

It really depends on charger spacing. In theory, yes it will. The longer the trip at high speeds (80+ mph), the more time you'll save. I have done single and dual charge trips where the Kia saved less than 30 minutes because of the low speeds and the forced charging due to the distance between the chargers.

Sioux City and Sioux Falls both have brand new EA chargers and I experienced show charging at those as well. So I figure there could be three possible explanations.

- EA had derated these chargers
- Ford did something to the charging speeds in one of the OTA updates
- My truck has a problem

It's likely the EA chargers. I encounter charging issues significantly more frequently in hot weather than I do in cold/moderate temps - and that includes the Tesla Superchargers. The problem is much more apparent at smaller stations or high traffic stations where the chargers are frequently used back to back without much rest/cooldown.

 

[detansinn]

When I had my Taycan, I would lay out my charge plans for 10-15min stops. I wouldn’t bother charging the pack so deeply. I kept the SoC in an optimum range where I could get the best out of my charging rate.

We covered over 500 miles today in our Lightning ER, three charging stops, total charge time of 1h10m. Multiple short stops are better than a few long/slow ones. And at the moment, I’ve still got 148 miles of range left.

I only bother to charge north of 80% if I need it for an especially long leg. During the time that you wait for 80-90%, you can do a whole other stop and add a lot more miles in the same time.

The charging curve of the F150 is awesome for a 400V architecture machine. It’s not going to have the peak numbers of an 800V platform, but slow and steady wins the race.

 

[potato]

Makes sense but I can tell you on this trip I never noticed the charge speed increasing.

Yeah, my comment may have been a bit off topic, which I alluded to in my last paragraph. If you're not limited by the max current available on the charger, and it's still not fast enough, well, not much you can do about that. Long road trips are not really the Lightning's strong point. Comfort wise, yes absolutely, but speed? It is a bit slower overall, mostly due to the poor efficiency of trucks in general.

 

[Hammick]

Yeah, my comment may have been a bit off topic, which I alluded to in my last paragraph. If you're not limited by the max current available on the charger, and it's still not fast enough, well, not much you can do about that. Long road trips are not really the Lightning's strong point. Comfort wise, yes absolutely, but speed? It is a bit slower overall, mostly due to the poor efficiency of trucks in general.

If there were chargers every 120 miles or so I'd have no issues with my 3000 mile round trips.

 

[Hammick]

When I had my Taycan, I would lay out my charge plans for 10-15min stops. I wouldn’t bother charging the pack so deeply. I kept the SoC in an optimum range where I could get the best out of my charging rate.

We covered over 500 miles today in our Lightning ER, three charging stops, total charge time of 1h10m. Multiple short stops are better than a few long/slow ones. And at the moment, I’ve still got 148 miles of range left.

I only bother to charge north of 80% if I need it for an especially long leg. During the time that you wait for 80-90%, you can do a whole other stop and add a lot more miles in the same time.

The charging curve of the F150 is awesome for a 400V architecture machine. It’s not going to have the peak numbers of an 800V platform, but slow and steady wins the race.

I'm traveling across I-90 from Sioux Falls to Billings. Chargers are few and far between. When I go across I-70 I usually don't have to go over 70% until I hit I-25, then the real pain starts.

 

[watson123]

Exactly. I have both a Lightning and a Mach-E. The distance between charging stops is about the same, but the charging time is almost 50% longer if I take the Lightning. Ballpark numbers. But the Lightning is a much more comfortable ride on long trips. Tradeoffs!

+1 on the comfort. If I want to get there as quickly as possible, I will take my Tesla. If comfort and style are of import, I'll take the F-150 all day.

 

[FLSpartan04]

I learned a couple things road tripping from FL to MI (1200 miles, just arrived yesterday). First, I brought a towel and replenished it with cold water and wrapped it before every super charger session. This didn’t seem to have much affect. It seems I would ramp regardless to 150-160 and quickly throttle down to the 100kw range. The temps were pretty high for most of my journey. On one of my last stops, rain came in midway through the charging session, dropping ambient temperature from 90 to 70 very quickly (it was a very hard rain). My charge speed actually bumped back up from 100 to 116 when that occurred. Not sure if it was the charger cooling or the truck that allowed for higher speeds, but it was interesting to learn.

 

[dajohn3]

Took another trip from Kansas City to Red Lodge, Montana (I-29 and I-90) and I wasn't at all impressed with the charging speed. Even the brand new EA chargers would start out close to 170kw and then rapidly drop to around 116kw and often below 100kw. Not sure if the Lightning is reducing the charge rate because of the summer heat or if EA is de-rating their chargers because of the heat. There were several charging stops where I needed to charge to 90%. That's where it really get's painful.

I've charged at a Magic Dock in Indiana four times and the same thing happened. Ramped up to 170kw briefly and then quickly dropped to below 120kw. I cannot continue to live with 1 hour charge stops.

My wife has another year on her Ioniq 5 lease and thinking about getting her into an EV9 so we can use it for our trips to our Montana place. I think I will keep the Lightning as I love it and it powers our house daily. It's resale value is pathetic so I can see keeping it for ten years or longer. It saves us about $1,500 a year off our electric bills so I have that justification.

From what I have seen the EV9 charges super fast, even above 80%. Any other full size SUV EVs we should be looking at that charge as fast as the KIA?

The slow charging rate is dictated by the Lightning to the charger via their onlboard computer. I had the 98KW lightning and traded it in today because you can't drive it long distance without having a problem with the charging stations or lack thereof. A normal 7.5 hour trip with a gas vehicle took me up to 12 hours to complete with the lightning so the lightning became a nightmare of a problem. Also, because of the strain on the electric grid caused by the increase in EV charging, the companies are reducing charging rates during high peak times. I am not sure if having an EV at this time is the best and only option especially on long trips. In the city, I think that it is the only answer because you can charge at home at 13 cents a KWH and as long as you stay in the confines of the city you won't have any of the charging problems that you have on the road. Some 98KW Lightning drivers will never know that their vehicles will only travel AT 70 MPH, 120 miles at 90 percent CHARGE before needing to charge it. I found that out the first time I drove to my ranch BUT AT THAT TIME THE LIGHTNING WAS CHARGING AT A HIGHER RATE and could charge to 80 percent in 24 minutes and 90 percent at 44 minutes. Now it takes you 44 minutes to charge to 80 percent and 66 minutes to charge to 90 percent.

 

[keith]

Took another trip from Kansas City to Red Lodge, Montana (I-29 and I-90) and I wasn't at all impressed with the charging speed. Even the brand new EA chargers would start out close to 170kw and then rapidly drop to around 116kw and often below 100kw. Not sure if the Lightning is reducing the charge rate because of the summer heat or if EA is de-rating their chargers because of the heat. There were several charging stops where I needed to charge to 90%. That's where it really get's painful.

I've charged at a Magic Dock in Indiana four times and the same thing happened. Ramped up to 170kw briefly and then quickly dropped to below 120kw. I cannot continue to live with 1 hour charge stops.

My wife has another year on her Ioniq 5 lease and thinking about getting her into an EV9 so we can use it for our trips to our Montana place. I think I will keep the Lightning as I love it and it powers our house daily. It's resale value is pathetic so I can see keeping it for ten years or longer. It saves us about $1,500 a year off our electric bills so I have that justification.

From what I have seen the EV9 charges super fast, even above 80%. Any other full size SUV EVs we should be looking at that charge as fast as the KIA?

Is it possible for you to explain how you manage to use the lightning to save electricity.

 

[hturnerfamily]

... I had the 98KW lightning ... you can't drive it long distance without having a problem with the charging stations or lack thereof.

over 44,000 miles in my Pro and 20,000 of that while towing - I'll beg to differ with you.

 

[hturnerfamily]

... Some 98KW Lightning drivers will never know that their vehicles will only travel AT 70 MPH, 120 miles at 90 percent CHARGE before needing to charge it....

I think you are assuming a lot, and most all owners know EXACTLY what their truck is designed to do. You apparently did not.

Your speed, terrain, and weather/wind are also not always indicative of everyone else's travel experiences.

This is never a 'one size fits all' equation. There's enough vehicle types on this globe to choose from for every situation.

 

[invertedspear]

Also, because of the strain on the electric grid caused by the increase in EV charging, the companies are reducing charging rates during high peak times.

Just... This is just bullshit FUD that has been repeated from anti EV mouthpieces since EVs started to get popular. Electric companies can't slow your charging down unless you are in some program where you opted in to allowing them to control your charger. Or are you saying the DCFC companies slow you down? That would be pretty heinous in TX where they charge you per minute instead of per kWh, and should open the door to more complaints than they'd ever want to deal with. There are plenty of things that can slow down your charging, many of them are heat related and therefore correlate to the same time of day as high demand. Now that you traded in your lightning will you please stop spreading false statements on this forum?

 

[dajohn3]

Just... This is just bullshit FUD that has been repeated from anti EV mouthpieces since EVs started to get popular. Electric companies can't slow your charging down unless you are in some program where you opted in to allowing them to control your charger. Or are you saying the DCFC companies slow you down? That would be pretty heinous in TX where they charge you per minute instead of per kWh, and should open the door to more complaints than they'd ever want to deal with. There are plenty of things that can slow down your charging, many of them are heat related and therefore correlate to the same time of day as high demand. Now that you traded in your lightning will you please stop spreading false statements on this forum?

The only bullshit artist here is you! I don't know if California has passed the bill yet or not but that is what they were looking into as a solution. The ambient heat outside is not the only reason for slowing down your charging speeds. It is just one of many. The best choice of charging is at home and anyone with a 98KWH battery pack should just stick to driving in the city because it is hell finding a charging station in rural areas and charging every 100 or so miles, at the posted speed limit, on a cross country trip, for 66 minutes, is just not worth it. The extended range truck is your best bet but that also limits you to around 240 miles at 70 mph on level freeway. So why don't you just try and be a little more considerate with your remarks next time. I have many pictures of fast charging stations that had 150 KW or more posted on them but only sent to my truck 7 KWH but they aren't the norm so I haven't posted them. You need to understand that there are a lot of charging stations that are broken along certain routes and this issue will leave you stranded while you wait for a tow truck to bring you to a working charging station. I am only posting my experiences with having a 98KW Ford Lightning, nothing more.

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