Charging question.

[Amps]

Read the description 22kw.

Your occupation is electrician?

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[Maquis]

Correct. You would need 275 V to get the 22 kW rate...they may have designed their equipment to HANDLE 275 V, even if it is not offered basically anywhere in the world.

I bet it would work if connected to one leg of a 480/277 wye system. Not that I’d try it.

 

[jerock]

As far as who makes the FCSP all I can say is when I had trouble with my first one I talked directly with a Siemens technician. My replacement came directly from Siemens.

 

[chl]

Totally bogus - Amazon no longer has this available btw - probably because of the misinformation.

How did they come up with the 22kw?

Well maybe like this...

220V is a European standard voltage, in the US it is nominally 240V.

To deliver 80A (the actual amperage of the charger) you'd use a 100A circuit (using a 125%) because there are Ohm's law losses in the wiring.

So using Watts Law, 100A times 220V with a power factor of 1 (because it is a resistive load) is 22kW the number in the ad.

But that is a completely misleading, idealized black-board calculation.

In the real world, a 220V, 100A circuit in the breaker box wired to the charger is not going to deliver 22kw to the Lightning even it is only a few inches from the box, there are Ohm's law resistance losses in the wiring, in the charger, in the charger cord connecting to the Ford, etc.

And as others have pointed out, 19.2.kW is the max the Ford can utilized under optimal circumstances anyway.

One has to be very careful these days with things being sold on Amazon - if it seems too good to be true, it is a probably a rip-off.

 

[djwildstar]

Given what PrimeComTech has claimed, I wound't trust anything that they say:

• The maximum Level 2 charging power for J1772 per the standard is 19.2kW; any EVSE that claims to deliver more than this is either out of compliance with the J1772 standard, or is making up funny numbers for marketing purposes.
• Siemens makes the Ford Charge Station Pro, and Webasto makes the Ford Mobile Connector; it is unclear who makes the Ford Connected Charge Station.
• The maximum charging power is controlled by the vehicle, based on the power its on-board battery chargers can handle. Regardless of the power supplied by the EVSE, the vehicle will not charge above its maximum acceptance rate:
  • All SR Lightnings have a single 11.3kW charger, and
  • All ER Lightnings have two 9.6kW chargers for a combined maximum of 19.2kW.

 

[TerryNelsen]

Totally bogus - Amazon no longer has this available btw - probably because of the misinformation.

How did they come up with the 22kw?

Well maybe like this...

220V is a European standard voltage, in the US it is nominally 240V.

To deliver 80A (the actual amperage of the charger) you'd use a 100A circuit (using a 125%) because there are Ohm's law losses in the wiring.

So using Watts Law, 100A times 220V with a power factor of 1 (because it is a resistive load) is 22kW the number in the ad.

But that is a completely misleading, idealized black-board calculation.

In the real world, a 220V, 100A circuit in the breaker box wired to the charger is not going to deliver 22kw to the Lightning even it is only a few inches from the box, there are Ohm's law resistance losses in the wiring, in the charger, in the charger cord connecting to the Ford, etc.

And as others have pointed out, 19.2.kW is the max the Ford can utilized under optimal circumstances anyway.

One has to be very careful these days with things being sold on Amazon - if it seems too good to be true, it is a probably a rip-off.

I just did this screenshot on amazon.

 

[djwildstar]

I just did this screenshot on amazon.

Yep, I saw this on Amazon and on their website. One of the following three cases must be true:

1. The copy was written by a salesman who doesn't know anything about J1772 EVSEs,
2. The manufacturer doesn't understand the US electrical code as it applies to EVSEs, or
3. The manufacturer doesn't understand the J1772 standard.

I'm betting it's #1: they are using "Marketing Numbers" here, hoping to lure in some unsophisticated buyers who think "22 is bigger than 19, so this unit must be 3 better!". This will likely eventually result in lawsuit (does anybody remember the "15-inch" monitors that actually measured 14-and-change?). Options #2 and #3 are scary, but possible.

In any case:

• If you have an SR Lightning, there is no point in buying a charger over 11.5kW (a 48A charger on a 60A circuit) because the SR truck cannot accept more than 11.3kW of charging power. Chargers and circuits bigger than this are wasted on an SR truck.
• If you bought a new ER Lightning, it includes a Ford Charge Station Pro (which can support up to 19.2kW on a 100A circuit). If for some reason you need to replace a FCSP out of warranty and you have it hooked up to a 100A circuit, the Enphase Clipper Creek CS-100 is probably the best choice but pricey at $2200. The PRIMECOM unit is only $60 less than the Ford Charge Station Pro, so given a choice between the two I'd probably go with Ford; at least they've been responsive for warranty issues.
• If you bought a used ER Lightning, consider your charging needs. Most people don't need 19.2kW of charging power, and there's no point in spending big bucks to get there. Most people drive about 35 miles a day, and even 2.88kW (12A on a 15A circuit) can replenish this. Unless you drive truly staggering amounts every day, there's rarely a need to charge above 9.6kW (which is enough to replenish about 235 miles in a 12-hour charging session.

 

[Maquis]

Given what PrimeComTech has claimed, I wound't trust anything that they say:

• The maximum Level 2 charging power for J1772 per the standard is 19.2kW; any EVSE that claims to deliver more than this is either out of compliance with the J1772 standard, or is making up funny numbers for marketing purposes.
• Siemens makes the Ford Charge Station Pro, and Webasto makes the Ford Mobile Connector; it is unclear who makes the Ford Connected Charge Station.
• The maximum charging power is controlled by the vehicle, based on the power its on-board battery chargers can handle. Regardless of the power supplied by the EVSE, the vehicle will not charge above its maximum acceptance rate:
  • All SR Lightnings have a single 11.3kW charger, and
  • All ER Lightnings have two 9.6kW chargers for a combined maximum of 19.2kW.

The Ford Connected Charge Station is also made by Webasto.

 

[GoodSam]

If you have an SR Lightning, there is no point in buying a charger over 11.5kW (a 48A charger on a 60A circuit)

The SR could use the 80A FordCSP if one wanted to backfeed the house, but the charge rate would need to be set to a maximum of 48A, right? But the Primecom 80A does not have the CCS plug!

 

[djwildstar]

The SR could use the 80A FordCSP if one wanted to backfeed the house, but the charge rate would need to be set to a maximum of 48A, right? But the Primecom 80A does not have the CCS plug!

Yes, the one reason to use the Ford Charge Station Pro (FCSP) with a SR truck is if you've purchased the Home Integration System (HIS) and want to use the FCSP to feed high-voltage DC to the inverters in the HIS for the backup power feature.

The FCSP does not need need to set to 48A to work with an SR truck. If the FCSP is installed at higher power levels (for example, if you have both an SR and an ER truck), the FCSP will tell the truck the maximum amount of charging power available, and the truck will accept only the amount of power it can safely take. The remaining capacity would go unused. To think of it another -- more understandable but not quite accurate -- way, the FCSP says "I have 19.2kW available" and the truck says "I'll take 11.3kW of that please".

If your only vehicle is an SR truck, there's no reason to install the FCSP on anything bigger than a 60A circuit (for 11.5kW maximum power). If it would avoid a more-expensive install, then you can set the FCSP to any lower power level that your service, panel, and wiring can support. Many people assume that the FCSP has to be installed at 19.2kW on a 100A circuit, and spend a lot on service and panel upgrades, when they would be just fine with a much-less-expensive install that sets the FCSP to 9.6kW or 7.68kW.

You are correct that the Primecom unit is J1772 only and does not have the CCS pins needed for the Lightning to feed high-voltage DC back to the HIS. It presumably also lacks the circuitry to talk to the HIS and coordinate the backup power transfer with the truck. As far as I'm aware, the only vehicle-to-home option for the Lightning is via the FCSP.

 

[T-Bone]

Right - the max charge rate of an ER is only 19 KW, SR is 11 KW.

I have my SR on the Ford 80 amp charger, installed on a 100 amp breaker. My max charge is always 10.2 kw on the money

 

[jd350b]

I thought the SR battery maxed out at 11 KW on L2?

Yes, mine has always been between 10 and 11 (never reached 11)

 

[shutterbug]

Primecom tech is the company that makes the Ford charger.

Not true. But if it was, it would explain craptacular quality of all 3 Ford EVSEs.

 

[TerryNelsen]

Not true. But if it was, it would explain craptacular quality of all 3 Ford EVSEs.

 

[TerryNelsen]

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