F-150 Lightning to gain access to Tesla Superchargers! Get standard NACS port starting 2025!

[Kev12345]

I should probably caveat this post with the following disclaimer:

This is my personal opinion and not the opinion of Transport Evolved. I’m posting as a Ford owner not the host of TE.

Personally, while I think the news is good for expanding EV accessibility and adoption, I do have some significant concerns over a monopoly being established that will result in the metaphorical tears before bedtime.

Why? Because Tesla has never been a particularly strong team player. Its networks just work because it controls all aspects of the ownership and charging experience. Having other companies use the network will result in more hiccups and headaches. We should be prepared for that, and not expect plain sailing.

I think NACS has some benefits, but I also worry about what the switch in standard will do for owners of older CCS vehicles, and worry they may be left behind like CHADeMO cars have been.

Finally, while the Tesla experience is very easy, I’m worried about the extra cost of charging. I know Tesla charging is more expensive.

So cautiously optimistic, but guarded. I need to see more from both Tesla and Ford before I decide if it’s good or not long term.

That said, I also REALLY do not want to give Elon Musk any more money than I have to given some of his behavior of late, but that’s not for this forum. I miss the old Elon (who was reasonably pleasant).

Tesla may control the superchargers but ford could start building fast chargers any day now with NACS connectors...

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[Zprime29]

It's only common sense. The only real impediment to non-Tesla owners using the superchargers is that there wasn't a NACS-to-CCS1 adapter. Once the adapter is available the flood gates will open.

I think it bears beating this dead horse, you're idea of common sense was not thought out. As @cwstnsko just pointed out, the flood gates will not open simply due to the presence of an adapter. If that were the case, we'd already have one on the market. With no interaction possible, tesla firmly controls who has access.

I'm still waiting to see a projection of CCS only vs NACS only. Govt moves very slowly, there will be money skimmed, probably some straight up scammed. My WAG, the two plug types grow at parity. Private money is more efficient and I think we will see third party NASC chargers start popping up.

For those who fear monopoly, the NACS does not require tesla software to use. There is nothing preventing DCFC makers from including those plugs on their own network. I watched Out of Spec's tour of Charge Point. They're ideally situated with their modularity to be able to adapt if NACS really takes off.

 

[astricklin]

As part of the discussion on gas stations adding chargers. 7-eleven is starting to install chargers at locations (they've been working on this for several years). Shell has their own charging network. I believe that GM is partnering with loves/flying j. Jerry in Texas, bucc-ees has applied for the federal monies and is going to be putting in non -Tesla stations at their locations, many of which already have superchargers.
So the gas station roll out is coming and I for one welcome it because they're better than having to stop at a Walmart (looking at you EA)

 

[lightspeed]

I should probably caveat this post with the following disclaimer:

This is my personal opinion and not the opinion of Transport Evolved. I’m posting as a Ford owner not the host of TE.

Personally, while I think the news is good for expanding EV accessibility and adoption, I do have some significant concerns over a monopoly being established that will result in the metaphorical tears before bedtime.

Why? Because Tesla has never been a particularly strong team player. Its networks just work because it controls all aspects of the ownership and charging experience. Having other companies use the network will result in more hiccups and headaches. We should be prepared for that, and not expect plain sailing.

I think NACS has some benefits, but I also worry about what the switch in standard will do for owners of older CCS vehicles, and worry they may be left behind like CHADeMO cars have been.

Finally, while the Tesla experience is very easy, I’m worried about the extra cost of charging. I know Tesla charging is more expensive.

So cautiously optimistic, but guarded. I need to see more from both Tesla and Ford before I decide if it’s good or not long term.

That said, I also REALLY do not want to give Elon Musk any more money than I have to given some of his behavior of late, but that’s not for this forum. I miss the old Elon (who was reasonably pleasant).

This is the thanks that Tesla gets for starting the EV revolution and building a charging network completely with their own money and with no help of the government or anyone else (until the recent infrastructure bill) and then opening it to Ford even though it's arguably against Tesla's best interests.

 

[astricklin]

This is the thanks that Tesla gets for starting the EV revolution and building a charging network completely with their own money and with no help of the government or anyone else (until the recent infrastructure bill) and then opening it to Ford even though it's arguably against Tesla's best interests.

Tesla has long taken government money in many forms. Most notably selling regulatory credits to other companies.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/14/investing/elon-musk-wealth-taxpayer-support/index.html

 

[lightspeed]

Tesla has long taken government money in many forms. Most notably selling regulatory credits to other companies.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/14/investing/elon-musk-wealth-taxpayer-support/index.html

How much money has GM, Chevron, Lockheed, Pfizer, etc.. taken from the government?

Tesla didn't invent or lobby for the idiotic cap-n-trade-green-credits-BS. But if it's there, why would any company not take advantage of it?

Those credits are available to anyone who wants to compete with Tesla.

 

[astricklin]

How much money has GM, Chevron, Lockheed, Pfizer, etc.. taken from the government?

Tesla didn't invent or lobby for the idiotic cap-n-trade-green-credits-BS. But if it's there, why would any company not take advantage of it?

Those credits are available to anyone who wants to compete with Tesla.

You just had said that they built the supercharger network without government help until the infrastructure bill, and that is an inaccurate statement.

Pretty much every business at some point gets tax breaks or other forms of government assistance.

 

[lightspeed]

You just had said that they built the supercharger network without government help until the infrastructure bill, and that is an inaccurate statement.

Pretty much every business at some point gets tax breaks or other forms of government assistance.

What government money are you talking about?

The carbon credits are paid for by other companies who are forced to buy Tesla's credits. This is not money from the government.

The EV tax rebates go to consumers.

Tesla got a loan at one point that they paid back.

Corporate tax breaks aren't the same as money from the government.

All of the above are available to any company. Why do you think people choose to single out Tesla?

 

[LifeAsDane]

As part of the discussion on gas stations adding chargers. 7-eleven is starting to install chargers at locations (they've been working on this for several years). Shell has their own charging network. I believe that GM is partnering with loves/flying j. Jerry in Texas, bucc-ees has applied for the federal monies and is going to be putting in non -Tesla stations at their locations, many of which already have superchargers.
So the gas station roll out is coming and I for one welcome it because they're better than having to stop at a Walmart (looking at you EA)

Heck. Gas stations probably can make better margins on ev charging than gas. Besides the charger initials costs they have. The average fast charger cost to me is almost 3x my home cost!

 

[astricklin]

Heck. Gas stations probably can make better margins on ev charging than gas. Besides the charger initials costs they have. The average fast charger cost to me is almost 3x my home cost!

Most gas stations are franchises so the cost of initial instillation may be overwhelming for many smaller operators. Infrastructure funding is definitely helping with this along with the corporate ownership assisting with installation. Hopefully operations can be profitable so that they are motivated to upkeep the stations. As we have seen so far, upkeep seems to be a big challenge.

 

[Artificial Intelligence]

Who pays for the adaptor is it free to owners

 

[TaxmanHog]

Adapter pricing as well as charging rates will be shared closer to Tesla Superchargers becoming available through the BlueOval Charge Network.

 

[Peddyr]

Adapter pricing as well as charging rates will be shared closer to Tesla Superchargers becoming available through the BlueOval Charge Network.

Taxman, do you have guess on pricing for either? I'm figuring $200/300 for the adapter and I can't call the charging rates, but I'd think they'd be slightly more expenisve than the current Tesla users.

 

[Amps]

do you have guess on pricing for either?

Although I'm counting on Jim to send us all an adapter, I'm going to guess $175 because....

https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter

 

[sotek2345]

I am going to guess $800 for the adapter and $0.89c/kWhr. I like being a bit pessimistic and then being happily surprised vs. the other way around.

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