Winter/snow driving & one pedal mode

[Dinozero]

Isn’t the whole point of one PD that it’s slowing you down with the motors but not applying the brakes?

Back when I used to drive a stick shift down shifting in the snow and ice was a better idea than breaking.

Is my logic flawed here or wouldn’t the safest way to stop in icy conditions be one PD?

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[Ragman]

One pedal and winter ice don’t go together - in glare ice conditions on a highway it’s too aggressive even with X-Ice tires on you will go into a skid (been there done that). Our winters are likely worse than 95% of people experience - that said I’ve been in Texas when there is an inch of snow and watched people get stuck in it.

The cruise control/sign reading is also a bit too aggressive in winter driving - particularly when it reads the wrong sign and goes full regen braking…

 

[CD4TNF]

Lightning Mike did a 2 part series on winter driving testing with his Lightning. If anyone is interested.

Part 1


Part 2

 

[WilliamRobert]

Throw it into neutral? Really bad advice. You have no drive control at all.

I’ve been driving in ice and snow for fifty plus years, when you are in neutral the wheels turn freely and gain traction, if the wheels are in drive they will be either too slow and slide or too fast and spin. When that happens you can’t steer or stop.

 

[WilliamRobert]

Definitely do not throw it in neutral.

That’s the only way to get traction and control.

 

[RickLightning]

I’ve been driving in ice and snow for fifty plus years, when you are in neutral the wheels turn freely and gain traction, if the wheels are in drive they will be either too slow and slide or too fast and spin. When that happens you can’t steer or stop.

Absolutely against what experts recommend.

 

[WilliamRobert]

Absolutely against what experts recommend.

Must be flat lander experts, that never drove mountain roads or ice and snow.

 

[Henry Ford]

Isn’t the whole point of one PD that it’s slowing you down with the motors but not applying the brakes?

Back when I used to drive a stick shift down shifting in the snow and ice was a better idea than breaking.

Is my logic flawed here or wouldn’t the safest way to stop in icy conditions be one PD?

In a manual transmission, non-ABS vehicle your options for stopping are engine braking or friction braking. If the friction brakes are drums, engine braking may very well be your best option for slowing down. Non-ABS discs are a little better but still prone to slipping.

If ABS is available, it is a better option than engine braking. ABS assures that the wheels don't skid which allows for much faster stopping than engine braking can provide and is available on all four wheels. Engine braking plus ABS might provide a slight advantage over ABS in neutral because there would be some amount of braking when the ABS pulses off.

The Lightning, and probably every other EV, has software that prevents the wheels from skidding while using regen braking. It also has ABS that prevent the wheels from spinning. I can't speak to the level of sophistication of the traction control and ABS system except to say that the ABS works on an individual wheel level and the electric motor part of the system works at the individual axel level, if not the individual wheel.

When the Lightning is in drive you have all available traction control and braking safety systems available whether you use 1PD or 2PD. If you put it in neutral you remove all of the safety systems related to motor braking. If you mess up and accidentally put it in park you have locked up all of the wheels and have zero safety systems.

Formula 1 drivers are the best drivers in the world, yet F1 cars have advanced traction control and ABS.

 

[4trees]

Use whatever drive mode you are comfortable with. 1PD maintains all traction control protection. If you find yourself out of control it's because you've exceeded the traction control capabilities of the truck and your driving ability.

Take it slow in the snow! You know this is good advice because it rhymes. The best advice usually rhymes. Sometimes alliterative advice is good. Stay away from mnemonic advice, that's borderline witchcraft!

Agreed, good advice

 

[N87]

How is it even possible to drive the speed limit or less in a Lightning???

I hate to admit that, but I agree with you

 

[tls]

Must be flat lander experts, that never drove mountain roads or ice and snow.

I coach competitive skiers and drive hundreds of miles per weekend, in the mountains, all winter long. I live halfway up a ski mountain and on winter mornings when we have away comps I'm often on the road well before the plows.

I guess what you're doing works for you but it is the exact opposite of what works for me.

 

[WilliamRobert]

I coach competitive skiers and drive hundreds of miles per weekend, in the mountains, all winter long. I live halfway up a ski mountain and on winter mornings when we have away comps I'm often on the road well before the plows.

I guess what you're doing works for you but it is the exact opposite of what works for me.

So you’ve never tried it, but you know it doesn’t work. It’s not for every situation, just if you get into a slide and need to regain control or stopping and pumping the brakes. You should try it in a snow covered big empty parking lot , you may learn something new.

 

[tls]

So you’ve never tried it, but you know it doesn’t work. It’s not for every situation, just if you get into a slide and need to regain control or stopping and pumping the brakes. You should try it in a snow covered big empty parking lot , you may learn something new.

Or maybe -- just maybe, you know -- I'm a non-"flatlander" who spends a ton of time driving and riding 4 and 2 wheeled vehicles on loose surfaces, who definitely knows what you're talking about, but who doesn't agree with you. Managing how much power you put to the road is definitely key to maintaining (or regaining) control on loose surfaces, but "none at all while I shift in and out of gear" is not a management style I favor.

I learned to drive in a rear-engine, stick-shift, air-cooled VW. You want the wheels disengaged from the engine? There's a pedal just for that. But I wouldn't advise moving it all the way to and from the floor on gravel, sand, or snow. Feather the clutch for less traction? Sure. Lug the engine a little in "too high" a gear to manage torque? Sure. Jam the clutch to the floor and keep it there (much less hit neutral with the shifter while trying to manage a slide)? Nah. Doesn't work for me. If it works for you, sure, do it. But please stop throwing around insults.

I find feathering the gas pedal in 1PD mode to be a very effective way to manage traction. It's no problem for me to find that middle point where the vehicle free rolls - or to feather just to either side of it for a tiny bit of drag or a tiny bit of gas. It's not as easy on the Lightning as it was on the Model S I used to have, but it's a little easier than on our Model Y. The jury's still out on the Mach E - though the friction brakes on the Mach E are so grabby, winter driving's definitely going to be all about touching them as never as possible. I definitely prefer the Lightning in 1PD mode in the winter; more than in the warm seasons, actually.

Here is a picture of the aforementioned VW (Well, one of them. This one's actually better in the snow than the Microbus was, but the bus had...other winter advantages). It's about to go home to Europe where another generation will learn to drive in it - my nephew on my sister's farm in Norway. Snows there a bit. Though come to think of it, I guess the first thing I ever drove was our 1960-something Massey. Definitely not a fan of letting that thing freewheel in the slippery...

 

[Henry Ford]

So you’ve never tried it, but you know it doesn’t work. It’s not for every situation, just if you get into a slide and need to regain control or stopping and pumping the brakes. You should try it in a snow covered big empty parking lot , you may learn something new.

This is not at all applicable in a modern vehicle. When you put a Lightning in neutral you turn off all traction control except ABS. When you pump the brakes you mitigate ABS.

If traction control and/or ABS have activated they can do a better job than you.

 

[WilliamRobert]

Or maybe -- just maybe, you know -- I'm a non-"flatlander" who spends a ton of time driving and riding 4 and 2 wheeled vehicles on loose surfaces, who definitely knows what you're talking about, but who doesn't agree with you. Managing how much power you put to the road is definitely key to maintaining (or regaining) control on loose surfaces, but "none at all while I shift in and out of gear" is not a management style I favor.

I learned to drive in a rear-engine, stick-shift, air-cooled VW. You want the wheels disengaged from the engine? There's a pedal just for that. But I wouldn't advise moving it all the way to and from the floor on gravel, sand, or snow. Feather the clutch for less traction? Sure. Lug the engine a little in "too high" a gear to manage torque? Sure. Jam the clutch to the floor and keep it there (much less hit neutral with the shifter while trying to manage a slide)? Nah. Doesn't work for me. If it works for you, sure, do it. But please stop throwing around insults.

I find feathering the gas pedal in 1PD mode to be a very effective way to manage traction. It's no problem for me to find that middle point where the vehicle free rolls - or to feather just to either side of it for a tiny bit of drag or a tiny bit of gas. It's not as easy on the Lightning as it was on the Model S I used to have, but it's a little easier than on our Model Y. The jury's still out on the Mach E - though the friction brakes on the Mach E are so grabby, winter driving's definitely going to be all about touching them as never as possible. I definitely prefer the Lightning in 1PD mode in the winter; more than in the warm seasons, actually.

Here is a picture of the aforementioned VW (Well, one of them. This one's actually better in the snow than the Microbus was, but the bus had...other winter advantages). It's about to go home to Europe where another generation will learn to drive in it - my nephew on my sister's farm in Norway. Snows there a bit. Though come to think of it, I guess the first thing I ever drove was our 1960-something Massey. Definitely not a fan of letting that thing freewheel in the slippery...

Or maybe -- just maybe, you know -- I'm a non-"flatlander" who spends a ton of time driving and riding 4 and 2 wheeled vehicles on loose surfaces, who definitely knows what you're talking about, but who doesn't agree with you. Managing how much power you put to the road is definitely key to maintaining (or regaining) control on loose surfaces, but "none at all while I shift in and out of gear" is not a management style I favor.

I learned to drive in a rear-engine, stick-shift, air-cooled VW. You want the wheels disengaged from the engine? There's a pedal just for that. But I wouldn't advise moving it all the way to and from the floor on gravel, sand, or snow. Feather the clutch for less traction? Sure. Lug the engine a little in "too high" a gear to manage torque? Sure. Jam the clutch to the floor and keep it there (much less hit neutral with the shifter while trying to manage a slide)? Nah. Doesn't work for me. If it works for you, sure, do it. But please stop throwing around insults.

I find feathering the gas pedal in 1PD mode to be a very effective way to manage traction. It's no problem for me to find that middle point where the vehicle free rolls - or to feather just to either side of it for a tiny bit of drag or a tiny bit of gas. It's not as easy on the Lightning as it was on the Model S I used to have, but it's a little easier than on our Model Y. The jury's still out on the Mach E - though the friction brakes on the Mach E are so grabby, winter driving's definitely going to be all about touching them as never as possible. I definitely prefer the Lightning in 1PD mode in the winter; more than in the warm seasons, actually.

Here is a picture of the aforementioned VW (Well, one of them. This one's actually better in the snow than the Microbus was, but the bus had...other winter advantages). It's about to go home to Europe where another generation will learn to drive in it - my nephew on my sister's farm in Norway. Snows there a bit. Though come to think of it, I guess the first thing I ever drove was our 1960-something Massey. Definitely not a fan of letting that thing freewheel in the slippery...

I had 1967 bug, it would go in the snow, just don’t try to steer or stop it! The heating system was garbage though and keep the windows open to let the fumes out , the heat came from the exhaust headers, sold that POS. My buddy bought a 1974 like that one, after a year he had the same problems as the 67, just not as much rust.
I actually worked in Astoria six months out of the year in the early 2000s and stayed in a campground in Orange county “the hotels were too exspensive, dirty and full of bed bugs”, the worst part of driving to work was when there would be a jumper on the Tappan zee, everything stopped. The roads were always taken care of in the winter though and not full of pot holes like PA.

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