What if you don't have enough juice for 100 amp panel

[greenne]

Whether or not the backup power is used is irrelevant to the charge current setting of EVSE.

Correct..but my point is that the Ford charger is overkill for most people. 80A wiring or setup may not be needed if you have no interest in backup power.

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[Maquis]

Correct..but my point is that the Ford charger is overkill for most people. 80A wiring or setup may not be needed if you have no interest in backup power.

Correct. My point is that I can set the EVSE to charge at 32A on a 40A circuit and still utilize the full 9.6KW backup power.

 

[beatle]

Correct..but my point is that the Ford charger is overkill for most people. 80A wiring or setup may not be needed if you have no interest in backup power.

I'll echo Maquis here. I don't see someone's interest in backup power has anything to do with how quickly they charge. If you have ToU rates, however, charging at a higher rate can save you money (though likely not breaking even for a while). Quoting myself from this thread: https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...ion-pro-to-lariat-er.10141/page-2#post-203366

That said, the usable capacity of my current car is only a little more than half of the ER Lightning, and I will hopefully be getting a smart meter later this year where TOU rates will be available. Super off peak is only 5 hours for me, so at those rates I'll be able to put 33% back into the battery during that time if I have 91% charge efficiency. Here is the max you can put into the 131kwh ER truck in a 5 (10) hour window given different charge rates and a 91% charge efficiency (rounding differences show some numbers are not doubled for 10 hour windows):​

​

16A = 13% (27%)​

24A = 20% (40%)​

32A = 27% (53%)​

40A = 33% (67%)​

48A = 40% (80%)​

64A = 53% (full)​

80A = 67% (full)​

If you have ToU rates and you drive a lot, you'll want to maximize your charging rate. I was originally going to go for the gusto and put in an 80a line, but my driving generally does not require putting more than 30-40% back into the truck. I'll likely have a 100a panel installed in my garage with a circuit for the CSP and one for my existing 14-50 in the garage for if/when I get a second EV or I replace the truck with an EV that can be parked in the garage.

 

[greenne]

Correct. My point is that I can set the EVSE to charge at 32A on a 40A circuit and still utilize the full 9.6KW backup power.

Understood..as the OP clearly stated earlier he has no interest in backup power.

 

[swngdncr]

After having the electrician out, I wonder how many people will be able to utilize the higher charging rates. Upgrading service is not a piece of cake. Trenching, pulling new wires, adequate space for panel, panel height, having enough amps for both house and charger yada yada. There are so many complications and constraints. Turns out our garage sub-panel is only 60Amp.. I don't know if the builder told us it was 100Amp and only gave us 60, or if hubby's memory failed.. Electrician is going to see if he can up the sub-panel amps, but the wires may be too small.

 

[Tony Burgh]

Although I am getting by with the mobile charger and 32@ draw at 240v, I’m putting a 100@ breaker in a 150@ box. The next heaviest draws are an electric over (24@, 240v) and a/c (20@, 240v), neither of which draw much between midnight and 6AM when the truck will charge. The pro charger will future-proof me since EV charging may get more intense not far down the road. Everyone’s needs and capacities may vary. One size does not fit all.

 

[FlasherZ]

After having the electrician out, I wonder how many people will be able to utilize the higher charging rates. Upgrading service is not a piece of cake. Trenching, pulling new wires, adequate space for panel, panel height, having enough amps for both house and charger yada yada. There are so many complications and constraints. Turns out our garage sub-panel is only 60Amp.. I don't know if the builder told us it was 100Amp and only gave us 60, or if hubby's memory failed.. Electrician is going to see if he can up the sub-panel amps, but the wires may be too small.

There are a lot of options available, and much of it also depends upon your utility. For my second 100A charger, they upgraded my service to 320/400A. Utility buried new cable from my transformer for free and supplied the new meter pan, and I just had to replace the old one. Then, I used a second set of lugs off the meter base to a new 100A service disconnect near my old panel (they have to be within reach of each other to shut all power off at once), then run to the garage.

Each situation is going to be different, so you'll likely need to find an electrician to look over what you have. They'll also know the power company guidelines too, generally.

 

[RickLightning]

My opinion, the HIS is expensive for what it is. It requires a very specific electrical situation to work. If backup power is needed, you could probably find a whole home generator for less money and hassle.

That's reality, yes.

The Lightning has to be a) connected to the charger and b) charged up when the power fails.

So if you're traveling, it's useless.

If it's not charged up (like you've been out all day and come home nearly empty and the afternoon thunderstorms hit), it's useless.

There are people who spend money to get the latest and greatest, and have bragging rights, who will jump to push this in.

Some, in high utility cost areas, with solar, can play the "charge the truck by day with solar and run the house off the truck by night" game, but for most people the rate differential between peak and off-peak is much, much smaller. Of course that could change in the future, but who knows.

With the relative inefficiency of the F-150L as compared to the Mach-E, I've gone from a "I will get the F-150L to replace the Mach-E" to "meh". I may, or may not, order when my chance comes up.

 

[swngdncr]

I'm sure it will work for some. Maybe in other parts of the country upgrading service isn't going to be so costly, but here in PG&E territory, its a different story. We've had two electricians out, and I've talked to a 3rd. Same story, thousands of dollars and a year or more before it will get done. But, the good news is that the electrician emailed that we can do an 80Amp service with the wire we have. In terms of backup power, as someone mentioned below, the HIS might not be the most cost effective option depending on an individuals situation.

There are a lot of options available, and much of it also depends upon your utility. For my second 100A charger, they upgraded my service to 320/400A. Utility buried new cable from my transformer for free and supplied the new meter pan, and I just had to replace the old one. Then, I used a second set of lugs off the meter base to a new 100A service disconnect near my old panel (they have to be within reach of each other to shut all power off at once), then run to the garage.

Each situation is going to be different, so you'll likely need to find an electrician to look over what you have. They'll also know the power company guidelines too, generally.

 

[FlasherZ]

I'm sure it will work for some. Maybe in other parts of the country upgrading service isn't going to be so costly, but here in PG&E territory, its a different story. We've had two electricians out, and I've talked to a 3rd. Same story, thousands of dollars and a year or more before it will get done. But, the good news is that the electrician emailed that we can do an 80Amp service with the wire we have. In terms of backup power, as someone mentioned below, the HIS might not be the most cost effective option depending on an individuals situation.

Understood. A former colleague of mine who lived in northern CA bought a Tesla Roadster around 2008-2010 or so. He knew that his 10 kVA transformer wasn't going to be enough to handle all his household loads plus EV charging load at 20+ kW and asked PG&E to upgrade his transformer. PG&E came back and wanted several thousands of dollars to upgrade.

His response? Wait for a nice, hot day, have another Roadster-owning friend over, and then plug them both in. They watched the transformer boil, then go POP... When PG&E came to fix it, they installed a bigger transformer for him at no cost.

 

[Lightninorian]

Understood. A former colleague of mine who lived in northern CA bought a Tesla Roadster around 2008-2010 or so. He knew that his 10 kVA transformer wasn't going to be enough to handle all his household loads plus EV charging load at 20+ kW and asked PG&E to upgrade his transformer. PG&E came back and wanted several thousands of dollars to upgrade.

His response? Wait for a nice, hot day, have another Roadster-owning friend over, and then plug them both in. They watched the transformer boil, then go POP... When PG&E came to fix it, they installed a bigger transformer for him at no cost.

What? PG&E equiptment fail? No? Never happens!

 

[Tenetke]

Thanks for the feedback/education. I started reading the unboxing installation thread, and this confirms what I was thinking would be the case. We just set it to 48A and be done with it. We don't need to charge overnight, I'm retired and can charge anytime during off peak, midnight to 3PM... But, it doesn't look like there will be any economically reasonable way to do the HIS if we need to spend 20K to upgrade our service. I'm still hoping for an off grid solar charging solution.

You might look into this bi-directional charger from Wallbox.

https://wallbox.com/en_us/quasar2-dc-charger

I was looking for a charger for my wife’s plug-in hybrid. We have solar and I like our Wallbox Plus for my Lightning. I’m not using my FCSP as I normally just charge during the day to utilize our solar panels.

 

[swngdncr]

Omg, now thats high risk hi gain.

Understood. A former colleague of mine who lived in northern CA bought a Tesla Roadster around 2008-2010 or so. He knew that his 10 kVA transformer wasn't going to be enough to handle all his household loads plus EV charging load at 20+ kW and asked PG&E to upgrade his transformer. PG&E came back and wanted several thousands of dollars to upgrade.

His response? Wait for a nice, hot day, have another Roadster-owning friend over, and then plug them both in. They watched the transformer boil, then go POP... When PG&E came to fix it, they installed a bigger transformer for him at no cost.

 

[jpepper07]

Could not run a second 100 amp subpanel from your subpanel or main panel. Run them in parallel?

I am building an attached garage that is right next to the house disconnect so I plan to run another 200amp main panel in the garage with a 100amp circuit.

 

[swngdncr]

I will ask electrician when he’s comes again. He wants to come back and check the conduit toss see of there is room to pull bigger wires and maybe get 100amp sub panel

Could not run a second 100 amp subpanel from your subpanel or main panel. Run them in parallel?

I am building an attached garage that is right next to the house disconnect so I plan to run another 200amp main panel in the garage with a 100amp circuit.

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