Installing a Home Integration System for Intelligent Backup Power (without SunRun)

[tls]

I love my little battery-powered brad nailer but I would not try to use it to frame a house; and I wouldn't use the Paslode gun on trim.

Using wireless for the communications between the components of this tightly-coupled system, which are already directly connected by wires, is a bad choice. I challenge you to show me another industrial-control system that does so.

That's really got nothing to do with whether the parts should present a wireless user interface to you. If the people who designed this mess think it does, that confusion alone would indicate to me (and I have done this type of work for a very long time as well as managed, hired, and fired many other engineers to do it with and for me) that they are not the right people to be designing or making this type of product.

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[Jim Lewis]

I challenge you to show me another industrial-control system that does so.

I am not an engineer but I can do an Internet search. I used Bing ChatGPT and searched on "Give me examples of industrial control systems that operate by wireless communication." A ton of references came up on the industrial use of wireless communication. Here's one of the top ones (from 2012, ELEVEN YEARS AGO - so things are undoubtedly further along since then).

https://www.digikey.com/en/articles/wireless-technologies-for-industrial-applications

So saying, "Nobody does it. It's crazy." is a bit of an exaggeration, to say the least. The person who wrote the article has made a career of wireless industrial communication.

Wireless Technologies for Industrial Applications
By Mats Andersson

Contributed By Electronic Products

2012-01-05


Wireless communication has been used in industrial applications for more than 30 years. Among the first applications where wireless was used was in wireless control of Automated Guided Vehicles (AGV) and cranes in warehouses where proprietary radios were used to achieve flexible control of the moving devices. During the last 10 years, standardized radio technologies like Wireless LAN (IEEE802.11), IEEE 802.15.4 and Bluetooth technology (IEEE802.15.1) have become the dominating technologies for industrial applications.

The main advantages for using a wireless solution in industrial applications include the following:

• Increase mobility.
• Eliminate expensive and maintenance-heavy transmission media such as flexible cables, swivels, etc.
• Overcome large and problematic zones (e.g. streets).
• Achieve fast and efficient installation and commissioning.
• Ensure personnel safety in hazardous areas (for instance, when needing to climb in a crane) by offering a control possibility from further distance than can be the case with a cable.
• Obtain flexible Human Interface Devices (HID).

 

[tls]

Gee, I wonder why you chose to slice up my text just where you did. As I said:

Using wireless for the communications between the components of this tightly-coupled system, which are already directly connected by wires, is a bad choice. I challenge you to show me another industrial-control system that does so.

Let me know when Google or ChatGPT find you another industrial-control system that uses wireless for the communications between its tightly-coupled components which are already directly connected by wires.

This will be my last message in this thread. I understand that you may have an emotional investment in the viability of the HIS product and be displeased by my view that it has a major architectural flaw which indicates to me, as a person who has designed and built similar things, that its engineering team is unlikely to be able to make it work. We can agree or disagree about whether my view is correct. However, I don't appreciate the disrespect shown by the way you're communicating, mixmastering what I wrote and feeding bits of it to AI bots. It's not worth my time or trouble to to correspond in that manner.

 

[tls]

I think we're talking past one another. If you're interested in why, you might look at the rest of the paragraph you grabbed that one sentence from.

Anyway, I do not have a HIS so I have not much at stake here. I'll exit this thread now.

 

[Jim Lewis]

Maybe part of the deal is that the truck will not always be plugged into an FCSP. And the very expensive HIS system will only be bought and used by a minority of truck owners. The wireless communication enables owners to check system status and control operation without going into their garage, i.e., the last point in the article I quoted: it provides a flexible human interface device portal for the user or installer to check all sorts of things about the system status and control the system. So wireless communication and control is going to be included, anyway.

Since I'm not an electrical engineer, I have no idea whether just the wires involved in charging could also be used for control purposes. But if you have a truck that has to work with various other charging devices, baking control function into the wiring of every truck for the FCSP and the HIS system might be a waste and a source of glitches. In contrast, if you use wireless communication, which you want anyway for the user and the installer setup interface, you don't have to build hardwiring into all the systems that will never use an FCSP or have a HIS unit attached. Wireless communication and control make the system more modular and less redundant than having both built-in wireless and wired control. The basic problem is that Ford doesn't know how to build/configure a good wireless control system.

The gist of the search results I got is that wireless control is replacing wired control throughout industrial applications. When you reconfigure your factory for new operations, you don't have to reroute a bunch of wires. Maybe wireless communication and control also give Ford the same option. As time passes, it can replace the FCSP and the HIS unit with other equipment and is not stuck with built-in wiring and logic.

 

[Jim Lewis]

It also occurs to me that those who think that one should never use wireless communication and control in a system where all the interacting components are in close proximity might want to trash their keyfobs and go back to using a "hard-wired" classic key and rely on hard-wired buttons, knobs, handles built into the vehicle, e.g., the trunk/frunk release cable, the tailgate, the door locks, etc.

 

[ExCivilian]

It also occurs to me that those who think that one should never use wireless communication and control in a system where all the interacting components are in close proximity might want to trash their keyfobs and go back to using a "hard-wired" classic key and rely on hard-wired buttons, knobs, handles built into the vehicle, e.g., the trunk/frunk release cable, the tailgate, the door locks, etc.

To your point, if one *does* go back to using a "hard-wired" classic key while having their phone connected to the truck, or any other vehicle with a phone as key functionality (or at least, the three I've owned), they will likely experience strange connectivity errors.

And that's precisely the point they were trying to make to you: it's not about *you* controlling the Ford Charge Station Pro wirelessly or about the proximity of the Ford Charge Station Pro to the Home Integration System, but rather the FCSC using wireless communication to control the HIS *while* also being wired together.

That's not analogous to work crews using wireless controls when the heavy equipment is connected via hydraulic lines and it's not relevant to whether end-users should be able to use wireless apps to interface with the devices. This also isn't my expertise or opinion so there's nothing for me to debate--but to the extent there is any disagreement it should be over a fair representation of what is being claimed by the parties involved in the discussion.

 

[hifixenthusiast]

Ford/SunRun flew a team member out to my home to validate and ensure my installation was working. This included coordinating Ford to push Power-Up 6.1.0 and Delta to push the v21 firmware update to my inverter. The Home Integration System is now performing like a champ. The firmware update fixed all BDI errors and allowed it to be configured with a working acrel meter. The inverter isn’t receiving automatic updates, so that has to be researched. But this was a huge step in the right direction. Where extremely delayed, Ford and SunRun’s recent response has been incredible. I officially have a registered and fully operational system that operates quickly and consistently.

 

[Maquis]

Ford/SunRun flew a team member out to my home to validate and ensure my installation was working. This included coordinating Ford to push Power-Up 6.1.0 and Delta to push the v21 firmware update to my inverter. The Home Integration System is now performing like a champ. The firmware update fixed all BDI errors and allowed it to be configured with a working acrel meter. The inverter isn’t receiving automatic updates, so that has to be researched. But this was a huge step in the right direction. Where extremely delayed, Ford and SunRun’s recent response has been incredible. I officially have a registered and fully operational system that operates quickly and consistently.

Qa’Pla!

 

[Jim Lewis]

Ford/SunRun flew a team member out to my home to validate and ensure my installation was working. This included coordinating Ford to push Power-Up 6.1.0 and Delta to push the v21 firmware update to my inverter.

Did your distinguished guests say anything about when the rest of us HIS owners might get the required updates OTA or what's required to get that sort of attention in person from Ford and Sunrun? Sunrun has left my e-mail complaints unanswered.

The M Professional app shows a pending firmware update for my inverter. I can get it to start downloading via the M Professional app, but it never completes successfully. One time, the result was "failed," other times, the process hung somewhere between 28% and 70% download complete. Any hints from anyone on what is required to get the inverter download to complete successfully would be most welcome.

 

[hifixenthusiast]

Did your distinguished guests say anything about when the rest of us HIS owners might get the required updates OTA or what's required to get that sort of attention in person from Ford and Sunrun? Sunrun has left my e-mail complaints unanswered.

The M Professional app shows a pending firmware update for my inverter. I can get it to start downloading via the M Professional app, but it never completes successfully. One time, the result was "failed," other times, the process hung somewhere between 28% and 70% download complete. Any hints from anyone on what is required to get the inverter download to complete successfully would be most welcome.

@Jim Lewis the team member expressed that with the release of this update, it has become a stronger priority for Ford/SunRun to resolve the instability issues of all early HIS adopters. It was represented to me that this was the first system to get the updates and Ford individually pushed the Power-up to my truck. The timeline wasn’t provided to me, regarding the widespread availability. But it was clear that the nuance and success of what was experienced yesterday was reported for the purpose of resolving this for other customers. This is a unified response between Ford and SunRun.

The SunRun team member also had to call Delta to remotely install the update, as it was failing to install when using the MPro app. My system hadn’t received an update since v18 and I had to manually install it then. I confirmed that the updates are supposed to be installed remotely and without customer interaction. The FCSP also has to be on version 91. My FCSP updated on its own weeks ago to this version.

Most of my journey has been documented here, but I was in the process of returning my equipment when this decision was made by Ford/SunRun as a last attempt of customer satisfaction. My Lightning had already gone through the battery module replacement as part of an early voluntary recall, which I am sure has also contributed to my specific circumstances. I was very skeptical about moving forward with this process, but I try to assume positive intent and I personally have been invested in getting this system working for 10 months. A huge weight of frustration and stress was lifted yesterday.

The SunRun team member was very knowledgeable and professional. It was clear that the team member was invested in the success of this system and being a steward of its user base. I’m glad to have met them.

I hope this issue is resolved quickly for everyone in this community!

 

[TaxmanHog]

The SunRun team member was very knowledgeable and professional. It was clear that the team member was invested in the success of this system and being a steward of its user base. I’m glad to have met them.

I hope this issue is resolved quickly for everyone in this community!

Thanks for the positive report and being tenacious about getting it resolved, hopefully the Delta folks figure out why their updates are failing to automatically post, and that more early adopters are given the same level of customer service to get these systems running properly.

 

[v2h8484]

That's good progress. Too bad that it takes starting a formal return/refund to get attention from Ford/SunRun.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Ford/SunRun flew a team member out to my home to validate and ensure my installation was working. This included coordinating Ford to push Power-Up 6.1.0 and Delta to push the v21 firmware update to my inverter. The Home Integration System is now performing like a champ. The firmware update fixed all BDI errors and allowed it to be configured with a working acrel meter. The inverter isn’t receiving automatic updates, so that has to be researched. But this was a huge step in the right direction. Where extremely delayed, Ford and SunRun’s recent response has been incredible. I officially have a registered and fully operational system that operates quickly and consistently.

OTA general distribution is out now for this:

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/ford-power-up-6-1-0-bluecruise-map-update.16961/

 

[hifixenthusiast]

OTA general distribution is out now for this:

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/ford-power-up-6-1-0-bluecruise-map-update.16961/

Awesome to see. I reported this Today.

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