Ideal Charging Frequency to charge to 80%

[Tractionlimit]

Hey, I'm looking for some real expert advice and data on this, not something someone's dad said based on their experience with cordless drill batteries:

What is the ideal frequency and duration to charge our trucks? I keep mine at 80% max charge setpoint, never charging past that unless I'm going on an extended road trip. That part is easy. But since it's cold herein MN, I plug-in whenever I pull back into the garage. So that means it's recharging every 5-10 or 20 miles sometimes, but allows for preconditioning. Would I be better off depleting the battery more?

Again, have their been any actual studies on this yet, and why are their still many theories floating around about what's right?

Thanks!

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[Firn]

Hey, I'm looking for some real expert advice and data on this, not something someone's dad said based on their experience with cordless drill batteries:

What is the ideal frequency and duration to charge our trucks? I keep mine at 80% max charge setpoint, never charging past that unless I'm going on an extended road trip. That part is easy. But since it's cold herein MN, I plug-in whenever I pull back into the garage. So that means it's recharging every 5-10 or 20 miles sometimes, but allows for preconditioning. Would I be better off depleting the battery more?

Again, have their been any actual studies on this yet, and why are their still many theories floating around about what's right?

Thanks!

With NMC the preferred method is ABC, Always Be Charging.

I don't have the studies handy, and you can find a ton of info here on the forum (Mikey is THE guy if you find his threads). In short the batteries we use like more small charges than fewer big ones, so daily charging, or even more than that, is the "better" way to charge.

Fwiw, the battery does some balancing between 99% and 100% to ensure each pouch is at the exact same voltage (important). It's not critical to charge to 100% regularly, however if you need the range know that going up to 100% is a bit helpful to the pack so don't feel like you should never do so. There is also the fact that in our trucks 100% is closer to the high 80% so you are not stressing the battery to hard by charging that high.

Lots of studies around. Look into lithium NMC (Nickle Manganese Cobalt). They won't typically be electric car related, but the batteries work the same. Once you dive down that rabbit hole you realize that the exact percentages of N and M and C matter too. That's where you want to go beg some of Mikey's time from him.

 

[Grumpy2]

Many studies support your current habit of always plugging in and keeping the DOD (depth of discharge) as small as reasonably possible. Yours is a SK On pouch battery, with a cathode of 90% nickle, 5% each of Manganese and Cobalt; which is significant as you read past studies. As Firn stated above, search MickeyAO here and read his posts, he tested our SK On pouch cells.

Note MickeyAO has also warned about the dangers of allowing your battery to get too warm.

If you want to search original tests search: Dalhousie Univ by Dr Dahn
and search: "Why Batteries Fail and How to Improve Them: Understanding Degradation to Advance Lithium-Ion Battery Performance"

Here is the result of a similar cell regarding DOD

 

[TaxmanHog]

Plug in at the end of each drive day, with a delayed charging routine, so that charging starts a couple / few hours before your next trip, the process of replenishing the prior days drive will also add some heat to the pack, in the worst of cold conditions the trucks BMS system will protectively warm the battery as the charging session kicks on.

 

[Tractionlimit]

Much appreciated on the quick responses. This confirms what I thought. Helps me from second guessing, and gives me some backup when someone says otherwise.

 

[mr.Magoo]

Here is the result of a similar cell regarding DOD

I, personally, find that graph really misleadning.

The 25-100% delta will reach the same throughput 7.5 times faster than the 65-75% cycle, so if they were scaled to look at throughput you'd be looking at a 92% vs. 90% capacity which is not a whole lot, but the graph makes it seem like you'r dealing with a dead battery vs. one with 92% capacity left at the point in time which simply isn't true.

The only ones you can compare is the two that are fixed to 50% and 60% respecively where the conclusion is that it's "bad" to always charge to 100% - which we knew already.

 

[Maquis]

The guy on here who tested the cells used in our truck in a lab plugs his in every night and charges to 85% (unless he needs more range the next day).

 

[astrand1]

I am set for 85%. Unless I am going on a long trip. Ford recommends 90% so I like to stay a little below that. Even here in Michigan in my unheated garage 85% gives me anywhere from 240-260ish miles but I always am on the plug if my truck is home. And weekdays it charges from 11p-7a for the cheap rates and then anytime all weekend as that’s considered all super off peak. I like it being plugged in so as others have said if it needs to warm or cool whatever it can do that.

 

[WoodduckMN]

I’m in MN also. I charge to 90% in the Winter as we only have one charger and alternate between the Lightning and Tesla Y. In the warmer months, we typically charge to 80%.

 

[broncoaz]

I’m in MN also. I charge to 90% in the Winter as we only have one charger and alternate between the Lightning and Tesla Y. In the warmer months, we typically charge to 80%.

I’m going to be in a similar situation when I pick up my Flash this week, sharing the charger with the Y. I plan on charging the Lightning to 80-90% daily, but mine is a lease so I don’t need to be as concerned about the battery health long term.

We’ve been charging the Model Y to 65% typically, but don’t charge it daily. My wife’s commute is 1.5 miles each way, typically we charge back up to 65% when the battery gets down to ~40%. If she is driving farther for work the following day it gets charged to 80% or higher if the trip dictates. If going over 80% we will charge it to 80% when she gets home, and put it to whatever level she needs when she wakes up. The car can get from 80% to 95% charging at 40 amps in the time she gets ready. I usually charge at 32 amps, no specific reason why I do that. I haven’t researched if 32 amps, 40 amps, or 48 amps might be better.

 

[nodoubleg]

My routine in the winter: I set my truck to 80% unless we’re heading out of town. Then I’ll set to 97% to charge overnight. About 3-4 hours before departure (which is usually in the afternoon/evening for such trips), I’ll hit the “start” button in FordPass. It warms the battery when charging from 97-100%, and it seems to me like it gives better range when I do this little routine. Seems like the battery is a bit warmer than it is with the standard scheduled departure preconditioning.

Anecdotally (so take with proper skepticism), I can run the pack to a lower SoC on a longer trip before the truck starts cutting the amount of available power. I’ll need to actually pull the battery temp numbers to compare next time it gets cold enough out.

When on a longer trip, I’ll try to hit a “splash and dash” DCFC stop when I get below 70%SoC (which happens pretty quickly when the truck is cold!) to add a bit of charge back and, more importantly, warm the pack up for better range. Especially helpful when the battery is cold-soaked from being left unplugged.

In the summer I charge to only 70% normally. I figure it helps to have SoC to slow calendar aging of the pack a bit at warmer summer temps. 70% SoC still gives better range in the summer than 80 or 90% does in the winter. Calendar aging slows down quite a bit at lower temps, and the higher SoC keeps the skinny pedal fun. I found 70% is too low to keep 100% power available during my daily driving, sometimes I’d leave the house with power already reduced, and that was even with early morning battery preconditioning.

After learning about battery wear and aging, it’s even changed how I handle my Milwaukee batteries. I’ll toss them back in the drawer at 3/4 charge, and only charge them back up at 1/2 or 1/4 charge. I try to not leave them all sitting at 100% SoC all the time anymore.

 

[William Munny]

Apologies for the silly question...I only have the ford mobile charger. I usually do not charge at home as I only have a regular outdoor outlet for level 1 charging. is there a way to plug in the vehicle but not charge, like to just keep the battery warm and in good shape but not draw a lot of electricity?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Apologies for the silly question...I only have the ford mobile charger. I usually do not charge at home as I only have a regular outdoor outlet for level 1 charging. is there a way to plug in the vehicle but not charge, like to just keep the battery warm and in good shape but not draw a lot of electricity?

If it's safe and convenient to do so, keep the truck plugged in, even if it's "just" level 1.

 

[Grumpy2]

On Fordpass the initial view tells you the current level of charge that you are at. Clicking on the "energy" icon at the bottom of that page leads to a 2nd screen. On this 2nd screen you can slide the scale to the left to a charge level lower than your current charge and the truck will not attempt a charge while plugged in.

Overall the 120v charger does not provide much protection for the battery, but it will provide some, so keeping it plugged into 120v when possible is probably a good idea.

It would be much better if you can find a 240 volt opportunity nearby for charging, possibly pay a neighbor??

 

[Maxx]

I do 40-60 in summer and 50-70 in winter. My drives are short. As the chart above indicates the same DOD is better around 50% than it is closer to 100%.

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